women in kilts

[arrg-isle]

I think western society, in particular, is moving more and more towards androgyny. And maybe not so far in the future what started off with a pair of jeans will become a society where all sexual dimorphism is suppressed--no body hair of any kind, no hips or breasts, all beefcake verboten. No body odor, no basso profundo or soprano...just the same old-same old, grey and and homogenized. And maybe for some that will be paradise but I hope I don't live to see it.

I like women because they are different. It's precisely the "otherness" that beguiles me.

I agree with you, DWFII; I think the potential for future homogenization of people is a horrifying concept, a nightmarish image of everyone being equal to the point of non-identity, a place & time where 88% of the population between 16 & 60 are just the right height & weight & color, with ideal median income & education; Hitler struck up the band, Ayn Rand blew the whistle, and the vast majority misunderstood both sounds.
But if our descendents are at serious risk of being zombified, their uniforms won't be tartan; it'll much more resemble the currently ubiquitous dark-colored hoodie (hood kept up), generic ballcap, low-rise jeans (grossly oversize for guys, gangrene-tight for gals), multiple brow-piercings and most important of all -- the wide-open cellphone fused to one ear.
Real kilts for women won't lead to androgeny . . not considering their cost, or commitment; for many of the women making that commitment, it may well prove to be the only genuinely tailored garment they ever own.
And no garment truly guilty of unisex fashion could ever show-off a woman's anatomical charms like an authentic kilt.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Like DWFII I, too, felt that having given my opinion I would move on... but you know, he's right (as is arrg-isle). Political correctness aside, ladies seem to be dividing themselves into two camps: Lipstick ladies and Log Cabin ladies. And it seems that the Log Cabin ladies are the ones who are clamoring for social approval to dress and act like men. They are also the ones who, tucking their plaid shirts into their men's jeans and lacing up their combat boots, often complain the loudest about media images that do not conform to their physical genotype. Barbie Dolls, Laura Croft, and slender women are somehow bad, while a Rosie O'Donnell, Queen Latifa, and far-from-slender women become their sometimes highly politicized archetypes of desirable femininity.

Frankly, I don't care what someone wears, even if their choice grates against several thousand years of ingrained aesthetics-- I am conditioned to ignore those things which do not please the eye. But, like DWFII says, this is an example of trying to reduce everything to the lowest possible denominator, using the excuse of entitlement rather than expending the effort to raise standards, be they personal or collective.

Unlike DWFII I do not see western society moving towards androgyny, but I do see a concerted effort on the part of many women (perhaps some unknowingly) trying to push society in that direction. Certainly I don't see any sort of political activity on the part of men campaigning for a more androgynous society.

Retro Red has posited that, at least for some, this desire to be androgynous may stem from problems with personal identity. Perhaps, perhaps not. I do believe that it takes more effort to project femininity than it does to project masculinity. Queen Latifa makes the effort, and despite her size, looks feminine. Rosanne Barr (or whatever her last name is) doesn't make that effort and as a result does not exude the same levels of feminine charm or-- dare one say it-- desirability.

And desirability, in my view, is what this is all about. If someone has been conditioned through two decades of political correctness to feel that they are not desirable, then adopting the guise of some other persona may provide them with a degree of psychological comfort, without having to actually do anything to make themselves more attractive.

We all agree that everyone is different, but the difficulty seems to arise when androgyny is used an excuse to erase those lines of "differentness" for reasons of political correctness.

Mods can feel free to remove this posting if they feel it has strayed too far off topic.

[Christo13]

ladies seem to be dividing themselves into two camps: Lipstick ladies and Log Cabin ladies.

My wife, Cynthia, doesn't fall into either of those two narrow stereotypes. I can't remember the last time she wore lipstick, let alone makeup, and I've never seen her in cmbat boots.

She has one kilt, and she doesn't wear it out of a sense of entitlement; she doesn't wear it to appear masculine.

She has a deep respect for history and strives to learn more each day.

She does not wear the kilt as I wear the kilt (she doesn't wear hose, flashes, or a sporran).

When she wears the kilt, it looks more like a below-the-knee skirt on her (and she stands almost six feet tall). During kilt nights, it is clear to tell the kilts from the women in kilted skirts and even kilts. So I have no issues with women wearing a kilt (and even if I did, it's their right).

I think you're doing a lot of women a disservice by lumping them into two camps.

Christopher

[DWFII]

Unlike DWFII I do not see western society moving towards androgyny, but I do see a concerted effort on the part of many women (perhaps some unknowingly) trying to push society in that direction. Certainly I don't see any sort of political activity on the part of men campaigning for a more androgynous society.

I had an interesting experience about a year or so ago that kind of relates...I hope I don't take this too far off track...

I have never been too much concerned with how I smell, you know? A little Old Spice and I'm good to go. But as my ten year old bottle of English Leather got low, I remembered that when I was in college I had gotten a gift set of men's cologne. Four kinds--all smelling very masculine. I think the one that I like the best was called Oak Moss. I like earthy and dark woods and leather and tobacco.

Well, I went looking for some men's cologne...maybe upgrade my image just a bit.

After literally months of searching I came to the conclusion that no one wanted to smell like a man anymore. If consumer preferences drive sales, it seems that most men want to smell like flowers.

Now I like flowers. I've even been to a couple of flower shows in my time and I like to photograph them..especially Caribbean flowers just after a rain. But I don't want to smell like a flower.

So then I started...just out of curiousity, mind you...smelling women's colognes. I couldn't tell the difference in most cases.

Eventually I found a few...a very few colognes...that weren't a blend of flowers and/or fruit (I like fruit too) but I had to go to some lengths to acquire them.

Which begs the question...what's everyone else wearing? Men are wearing androgynous colognes...in fact the great preponderance of men today are wearing perfumes that women want to wear.

I just wish women would leave us some few things that are undeniably ours.

[Arlen]

You know, this is a topic that has come up before and has caused just as many harsh comments as it has in this thread.

Maybe it's time we agree to disagree. There are very many people with different tastes on this community and we usually get on so well.

I know for a fact there are some people getting very upset and uncomfortable about the comments on here and they've chosen to just ignore the rest of the thread.

[Bugbear]

"There's a lady who's sure
All that glitters is gold."

I'm dropping out.

[GDub]

...I think you're doing a lot of women a disservice by lumping them into two camps.

I agree. This seems like good ol' boy talk to me. I'm a guy, plain and simple. Meet me, no matter what I'm wearing and I exude maleness. My wife is a woman of many guises, and ALL woman. If she chooses a more "androgynous" outfit (rare, but it happens) for whatever occasion she still exudes all woman. And I'm not about to tell her that if she wears a kilt she crossing the line into my "male" territory. Like I said, this is the 21st century. Some people choose the "metrosexual" or "androgynous" thing as a lifestyle choice. Others choose it for fun. Either way, does it really matter? I mean, a woman comes here and asks "is it cool for a woman to wear a kilt?" and she get a lesson in 19th century male aesthetics....

And BTW, I'm 54 and my wife is 4 years older than me! Here's a current promo photo she did during a recent photo shoot for an "Accordion Babes" pin-up wall calendar featuring Bay Area squeezin' divas (not the photo of her that got used but I like it):



Oh, the hat is a men's. The shoes obviously aren't.

[Panache]

You know, this is a topic that has come up before and has caused just as many harsh comments as it has in this thread.

Maybe it's time we agree to disagree. There are very many people with different tastes on this community and we usually get on so well.

Excellent point Arlen!

And with that...

Thread closed

Jamie