Solution for an ugly tuck-in selvedge

[Bugbear]

O! I understand now!
The pivot is like a mirror. I've been trying to figure out what all this was about for a long time now.

Thanks Barb!

[RockyR]

I was referring to the thin black lines in the middle, NOT the big thick black lines.... that's where we got confused.



Here's the question though... why isn't it an 'ABAC' tartan? I photoshopped (poorly) your pic and here's why I thought it would be ABAC:

[chasem]

Rocky, in your edit, as you go out from the center stripe in your black A section, the thread count is different from the other two A sections. They're the same for a bit (K4 B4 SL52), but from there on, they're different.

Barb said: "In order to be a pivot, the colors need to be identical in sequence and width on each side of the pivot."

So while each of the As in your edit is a pivot, they're not identical pivots, and B/C wouldn't be pivots at all. And so, I think, B and C wouldn't be "color blocks" for the sake of finding the pattern.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Barb, or help me out if I'm explaining poorly.

[ChattanCat]

I was referring to the thin black lines in the middle, NOT the big thick black lines.... that's where we got confused.



Here's the question though... why isn't it an 'ABAC' tartan? I photoshopped (poorly) your pic and here's why I thought it would be ABAC:

I believe the answer is that the A must be a pivot (mirror image when folded at the line). B in you pic is not mirrored when you fold it, one side has green, one is blue. Could be wrong but it makes sense to me.

edit: Chase beat me by two mins.

[RockyR]

But by that logic (folding on the thin black line), Blac Watch wouldn't be 'ABAC' either... if you fold Black Watch on the black line in the middle of the green, it won't be identical on both sides either...

Chattan... my point is that A is the pivot (either 'A').

My brain hurts now. Think I should take a nap and stop nit-picking. ;)

[Rex_Tremende]

To me it just looks like a particularly wide sett, giving the appearance of asymmetry, when it is just not common to our eye and hard to recognize as a repeating pattern. I saw it, but I had to look for a long time before I could see it. The letters didn't really help, I'm afraid to say.

Regards,
Rex.

[chasem]

But by that logic (folding on the thin black line), Blac Watch wouldn't be 'ABAC' either... if you fold Black Watch on the black line in the middle of the green, it won't be identical on both sides either...

My brain hurts now. Think I should take a nap and stop nit-picking. ;)

touche. That's a good point. I'll hold out for further explanation from Barb then.

[Bugbear]

Oops, sorry, I'll take that out untill Barb explains about the Black Watch.

[Barb T]

Well, I guess I look at the A elements of the Black Watch (the narrow black stripe in green), and I see them as distinct elements that have local symmetry (although only B and C are actually pivots). You _could_ actually define the Black Watch as an AB tartan if you started and ended the A and B blocks in the center of the narrow black stripe in green.

To me, it's useful, though, to think of the Black Watch as ABAC and to call out the A blocks because it's so easy to misidentify the sett.

You could call any tartan an ABAC tartan if you wanted to chunk out a piece between the A and B sections, but it doesn 't strike me as being very useful if it isn't a distinct element. In the case of the Black Watch, the A block is a locally symmetrical part of the tartan that _looks_ like it ought to be a pivot. In the case of the MacNaughton, the heavy black stripes to me are just part of the A or B block.

But, maybe Matt can weigh in on this.

[RockyR]

I think I see what you mean... the "dark" sections of BW are 'symetrical in and of themselves while the "sections with the thick black line" in the MacNaughton are NOT symetrical in and of themselves.