Shirts to be worn with PC jacket?

[Spartan]

Whoa! Who'd have thunk there was so much to this. Thanks for the post.

Just ordered my first PC and hadn't thought ahead to the shirt part...just figured the waistcoat would cover most of it and no big deal...so...the addiction progresses to a new project.

Ron

Time for a trip to the Valley so you can get one! And then stop by for a visit.

[Thistle Stop]

Where did you come up with this urban myth, Cyndi? It just isn't so! Tartan waistcoats certainly are worn in the evening. You just might not move in circles where tartan waistcoats are commonplace--and correct.

I find authoritative statements such as yours make me wince! You may not think such and such isn't worn ( and you may prefer that), but tell that to the great mass of gentlemen who think otherwise!

Best regards,
Sandford MacLean

Hi Sandford -- What I said was 'generally not worn'. Certainly some people do wear them, but it isn't common. The original poster was asking for basic information about what's conventionally worn, so I was describing that. In my experience, most people who are just putting together a first formal ensemble want to go with something that will resemble the majority of other gents at an affair -- the basics. More individualistic expressions come later, after he has observed some variations, looked at other options, and decided what he wants to add to his wardrobe. I was aiming to be helpful, not confusing, and certainly not offensive or incorrect.

Though not a very popular jacket style, the Sheriffmuir doublet is a often worn with a 5-button tartan waistcoat, cut on the bias, with a lace jabot. While it may be considered correct, that look makes me wince! To me, it resembles nothing so much as a schoolgirl's pinafore uniform with a cardigan over it. I think a barathea or velvet waistcoat to match the doublet is a much more masculine and handsome presentation -- but that's just my opinion.

Thanks for pointing out that conventions of dress can vary from place to place. A variety of experiences and opinions is the great strength of this forum!

Cheers -- Cyndi

[Thistle Stop]

Where can one purchase dress shirts with French Cuffs. I need a shirt that I can wear with my kilt or with my tux.

Tanks, Frank

Hi Frank -- We sell them in 100% cotton, wing collar or laydown collar, quarter-inch pleats, pearlised buttons, for $45.00 plus postage ($5.00 -- or in your case, you could pick it up since we're your local Highland dress supplier). I don't keep them in stock because there are so many neck and sleeve combinations, so if you want to buy one, let me know a few days before you actually need it so I can order it in.

Cheers,

Cyndi

[chasem]

This has been a really good, really informational read. I have just a couple questions.

Macmillan, could you explain the difference in the soft (fold) collar, soft collar, and wing collar in your descriptions? I think I understand, but I'd like to make sure I'm following...


Cyndi, it's good to see you back here more frequently!

[Thistle Stop]

I've just been picking my shirt to wear out with a PC on christmas eve, and had decided on one with ruffles. Now I may change my mind. Keep posting, and I'll keep reading!

LK

No, No, No ruffles! It's just not on to have your shirt competing with the kilt for attention!

Happy Christmas!

Cyndi

[Thistle Stop]

Cyndi, it's good to see you back here more frequently!

Thanks! It's good to see you and the gang, too!

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

This has been a really good, really informational read. I have just a couple questions.

Macmillan, could you explain the difference in the soft (fold) collar, soft collar, and wing collar in your descriptions? I think I understand, but I'd like to make sure I'm following...

Sure thing and sorry for the confusion!

A soft collar is one that folds over-- this is the sort of collar found on 99% of men's dress shirts. Nowadays the soft collar is usually attached to the shirt, and made of the same fabric (which is why it is called "soft"). It's one great advantage is comfort, as it is softer than the fold over "stiff collars" previously worn from the 1870s thru the end of WWI. These collars were very stiff and detached from the shirt for laundering. They weren't very comfortable, but did look nice as they held their shape better than "soft" collars. Today the two terms "soft collar" and "fold over collar" are interchangeable.

The wing collar is a standing collar where just the points are folded back, giving the appearance of two small "wings" where the collar buttons.

Originally, and as is the case with expensive dress shirts today, the wing collar was detachable from the shirt, being held in place by a tiny stud at the back of the collar and a larger one in the front where a collar button is located today. These collars are sized according to traditional neck sizes (16", 17", etc.) and by height, based on the length of your neck. The collars are made of a very fine, polished cotton and starched to the stiffness of playing cards. They hold their shape, and look as good at the end of the evening as they do at the beginning. Because they are detachable, they can be disposed of after a few wearings, while the body of the shirt can last for years, possibly even decades.

A wing collar shirt is a cross between the soft collar and the wing collar, and in my mind (like crossing a chihuahua and red setter) ends up being something of a mutt. Because the collar isn't detachable, and is made from the same fabric as the shirt, it lacks the stiffness and height of a real wing collar. They "wilt" as the evening carries on and by the end of the night the shirt looks really "tired". It's only advantage is cost-- a wing collar shirt can be had for as little as $25, which is about what you'd pay for a good collar. A banded collar dress shirt (the kind worn with detachable collars) sells for about $150 (when you can find one in the USA).

Traditionalist though I am, I'd advise wearing a soft collar dress shirt with black tie, be it with formal highland attire or an ordinary dinner jacket. The shirt will be more comfortable, and give you an over all better look.