What If He Had won?

[Highland Logan]

Interesting news story.

Frank

[pdcorlis]

Fascinating read - I can't wait to hear what some of our resident historians have to say!

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Well, if Prince Charles had succeeded in taking London, one thing is for certain. We'd all have been spared listening to drunks in Glasgow pubs singing "Flower of Scotland".

[fluter]

Well, if Prince Charles had succeeded in taking London, one thing is for certain. We'd all have been spared listening to drunks in Glasgow pubs singing "Flower of Scotland".

Do you mean that we'd be hearing them in Knightsbridge, instead?

[McClef]

From another contribution it's clear that MOR would rather the drunks were singing Scots Wha Hae

It's one of those tantalising "what if's" of history but even if BPC had continued on past Derby and George II had fled, it is no guarantee that the Stuarts would have not have been sent packing again at some point.

Britain did not have the socio-economic conditions nor the absolutist monarchy of France.

Our "Glorious Revolution" happened in 1688 not 1789. The Catholic Stuarts were seen as "damaged goods" and were no trusted despite their promises of religious toleration. Their attitude towards those who served and fought for them leaves a great deal to be desired also. The direct line died out with the death of Cardinal York in any case so the Hanovarians would still have had to come in at some point, we would have been spared George I and II but III would have still ruled just before he went mad.

Sure it's a romantic piece of history but at best it would have given the Stuarts less than sixty more years on the throne even if they hadn't been thrown out for a second time.

[macwilkin]

Well, if Prince Charles had succeeded in taking London, one thing is for certain. We'd all have been spared listening to drunks in Glasgow pubs singing "Flower of Scotland".

To be replaced with such classics as:

The wee, wee German Geordie
The Hanover Boat Song



Todd

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Let's see... it goes something like this...

Speed loaded barge as you wait for the tide,
Faster! the Germans pray;
Tearing their hair and trying to hide,
"Mein Gott let us get avay!"

Anne's rightful heir rides into the Town
And cheering rends the air;
On that noble head sits his rightful Crown,
Above his face so fair.

Speed loaded barge as you glide down the Thames,
Faster! the Germans cry;
Wringing their hands and singing their hymns,
All plans now gone awry!

Etc.

(Of course with apologies to Sir Harold Bolton, Bt., and Miss Annie Wilson (Lady MacLeod), who wrote and published "The Skye Boat Song" in 1884.)

Had the Stuarts succeeded in 1746, in all likelihood Charles would have succeeded his father (James III) in 1766, having married a Protestant princess, and produced an heir-- failing that his younger brother would have done the same and succeeded as Henry IX in 1788, and the line would probably have continued down to the present day, the Duke of Bavaria included.

All of this is, of course, idle speculation. What happened is exactly what happened, and the world is probably no better (or worse) as a result of it.

[Downix]

Some things that would have changed is that I would not exist. I had relatives that fought as a Jacobite that fled to the Americas, one of which married a native american. But it is a facinating thought, and would have changed the world.

[macwilkin]

I thought the author raised a very interesting point about the Battle of Fontenoy and the French not needing to invade Scotland and support Charlie. A lack of major French support kept many of the Chiefs from going "out" for the Young Pretender.

It's ironic to think that Fontenoy, which many remember today for the "Wild Geese" and their rout of "Stinking Billy" Cumberland may have sealed the downfall of their Scottish Jacobite cousins.

Fontenoy was also the first battle honour of the Royal Highland Regiment, The Black Watch. Even Cumberland had to grudgingly admit their bravery and fighting abilities.

Ironically, Peter Watkins' Culloden is in my Netflix queue at the moment. It is paired on the DVD with his "what-if" docuemtary The War Game, which is about as chillings as other movies of its genre (The Day After, Threads, On the Beach).


Regards,

Todd

[Bugbear]

The author, Harry Turtledove, writes a lot of fictionalized, alternative history novels; I didn't see anything on this subject or time period, though.

That's not my cup of tea; I don't mind historical fiction, but I try to avoid fictional history.