The Importance of knowing the Rules of Kilted Fashion

[Bugbear]

I too am a fan of the Deerstalker hat, and will one day replace the one I used to have.

I followed MacMillan of Rathdown's comments and suggestions to the letter when constructing my daywear outfit. The jacket and waistcoat wern't the traditional tweed, rather brown corduroy. Jock Scot said it looked great.

I think this falls into the spirit of the tradition rather than the rules of the traditional.

[Phil]

Jock, have you not realised yet? We are two nations separated by a total lack of tradition, never mind a common language. You and I know perfectly well how to dress because that's what our parents and those before them showed us by their example. If you have ever been to America you will begin to realise that nothing is what it seems to be. French dressing (apologies here to Ancienne Alliance) in America is not a subtle blend of olive oil, wine vinegar and herbs - no - it is a raucous tomatoey concoction like nothing you have ever tasted before. The World Series superbowl isn't actually played in the world, only in America but, what the hell! Our traditions and values are not those found across the pond but instead are those created by a people divorced from their heritage by thousands of miles and hundreds of years at a time when interaction was impossible due to the communications of the age. So when you see the farragoes that purport to represent Scottish culture and tradition you must understand where they are coming from. I used to regularly encounter American tourists in Edinburgh in shorts, flowery shirts, swearing expletives uncontrollably - the whole panoply of execrable dress and behaviour and quietly shake my head in pity. And yet they probably thought they were the greatest thing since sliced bread because everybody in Poughkeepsie dresses like this and for the greatest country in the world, well that must be good enough for everyone else.

[Jock Scot]

Jock, have you not realised yet? We are two nations separated by a total lack of tradition, never mind a common language. You and I know perfectly well how to dress because that's what our parents and those before them showed us by their example. If you have ever been to America you will begin to realise that nothing is what it seems to be. French dressing (apologies here to Ancienne Alliance) in America is not a subtle blend of olive oil, wine vinegar and herbs - no - it is a raucous tomatoey concoction like nothing you have ever tasted before. The World Series superbowl isn't actually played in the world, only in America but, what the hell! Our traditions and values are not those found across the pond but instead are those created by a people divorced from their heritage by thousands of miles and hundreds of years at a time when interaction was impossible due to the communications of the age. So when you see the farragoes that purport to represent Scottish culture and tradition you must understand where they are coming from. I used to regularly encounter American tourists in Edinburgh in shorts, flowery shirts, swearing expletives uncontrollably - the whole panoply of execrable dress and behaviour and quietly shake my head in pity. And yet they probably thought they were the greatest thing since sliced bread because everybody in Poughkeepsie dresses like this and for the greatest country in the world, well that must be good enough for everyone else.

I note what you say Phil and you are right! But the Americans are far too nice to give up on!

[Phil]

I note what you say Phil and you are right! But the Americans are far too nice to give up on!

Jock, I couldn't agree more. And the worst part is that we know where they originally came from so what does that say about us! That is a question I have asked myself so many times over the last 8 years or so. I was so encouraged and heartened watching the inauguration the other day and thought - those are the values of our people, hard work and concern for others. God bless him and keep him in his enterprise because I truly believe his values are the same ones we share.

[Panache]

Phil,

I like you, and you often have insightful comments to offer.

Those you expressed above I do not count among them.

America is a young country by the world's standards.

We are a wonderful amalgamation of many different heritages.

We are a country of great ideals and principles and a sense of anything being possible.

This ability to remember and honor the past and yet look forward and create the new is uniquely American.

Your posts threaten to derail a productive and friendly discussion.

It is so very very easy to find differences to split us.

It takes better eyes to see the common ground.

I respectfully ask of my American Brothers and Sisters to show a bit of restraint and forgiveness for some of the less than pleasant thoughts in Phil's posts toward our country.

Americans are nothing is not big hearted

Respectfully

Jamie

[Phil]

Phil,

I like you, and you often have insightful comments to offer.

Those you expressed above I do not count among them.

America is a young country by the world's standards.

We are a wonderful amalgamation of many different heritages.

We are a country of great ideals and principles and a sense of anything being possible.

This ability to remember and honor the past and yet look forward and create the new is uniquely American.

Your posts threaten to derail a productive and friendly discussion.

It is so very very easy to find differences to split us.

It takes better eyes to see the common ground.

I respectfully ask of my American Brothers and Sisters to show a bit of restraint and forgiveness for some of the less than pleasant thoughts in Phil's posts toward our country.

Americans are nothing is not big hearted

Respectfully

Jamie

Apologies for resurrecting this thread but I have just returned from a week's holiday and missed the later postings. Jamie I understand what you are saying but we Scots here sometimes get to feel like an oppressed minority and I felt Jock was in need of some moral support (although I am sure he is big enough and ugly enough to look after himself). I sincerely apologise to any here that I may have offended and hope none will think the worse of me for that.

[Jock Scot]

Apologies for resurrecting this thread but I have just returned from a week's holiday and missed the later postings. Jamie I understand what you are saying but we Scots here sometimes get to feel like an oppressed minority and I felt Jock was in need of some moral support (although I am sure he is big enough and ugly enough to look after himself). I sincerely apologise to any here that I may have offended and hope none will think the worse of me for that.

Well, big enough, anyway!

[macwilkin]

Jock, have you not realised yet? We are two nations separated by a total lack of tradition, never mind a common language. You and I know perfectly well how to dress because that's what our parents and those before them showed us by their example. If you have ever been to America you will begin to realise that nothing is what it seems to be. French dressing (apologies here to Ancienne Alliance) in America is not a subtle blend of olive oil, wine vinegar and herbs - no - it is a raucous tomatoey concoction like nothing you have ever tasted before. The World Series superbowl isn't actually played in the world, only in America but, what the hell! Our traditions and values are not those found across the pond but instead are those created by a people divorced from their heritage by thousands of miles and hundreds of years at a time when interaction was impossible due to the communications of the age. So when you see the farragoes that purport to represent Scottish culture and tradition you must understand where they are coming from. I used to regularly encounter American tourists in Edinburgh in shorts, flowery shirts, swearing expletives uncontrollably - the whole panoply of execrable dress and behaviour and quietly shake my head in pity. And yet they probably thought they were the greatest thing since sliced bread because everybody in Poughkeepsie dresses like this and for the greatest country in the world, well that must be good enough for everyone else.

Phil -- not everyone in America is like that, though. I cringe whenever I read such stereotypes of Americans, because quite frankly, I resent that I am represented by such folks.

I do hope you didn't mean this post to sound condescending towards your American cousins, but it sure does read that way.

Todd

[Phil]

Phil -- not everyone in America is like that, though. I cringe whenever I read such stereotypes of Americans, because quite frankly, I resent that I am represented by such folks.

I do hope you didn't mean this post to sound condescending towards your American cousins, but it sure does read that way.

Todd

Todd, I sometimes get carried away with myself but it is more down to frustration and certainly not condescension. I admire everything that America has achieved and many of my ancestors emigrated there so I have a vested interest too! The frustration comes from ignoring the traditions I was brought up with but I understand too that other societies have to evolve their own traditions in their own ways. Whether I agree is another matter and on that we may agree to disagree!

[macwilkin]

Todd, I sometimes get carried away with myself but it is more down to frustration and certainly not condescension. I admire everything that America has achieved and many of my ancestors emigrated there so I have a vested interest too! The frustration comes from ignoring the traditions I was brought up with but I understand too that other societies have to evolve their own traditions in their own ways. Whether I agree is another matter and on that we may agree to disagree!

Phil,

My point though was that not everyone in America ignores tradition. Many of us admire the customs and traditions of Scotland (and the rest of the UK, for that matter) and strive to keep them out of respect to the land from which they came.

Regards,

Todd