Flat Caps. No no and thrice no! Suitable hats when wearing your kilt. Discuss

[The Barry]

Haven't we beaten this topic er....flat by now?

Awesome!

[csbdr]

First the important stuff: What bike are you riding? I have a 2003 Triumph Bonneville with a big bore conversion to 900cc (50 cubic inches). The wife has an 883 Sportster Low. I'm hoping to fly them over to Sturgis some time in the future - if the Pound / Dollar exchange thing ever becomes more favourable and my bank account more healthy.

Exactly!! On to motorcycles. I ride a 2002 Russian Ural sidecar rig, and a mildly customized Yanmaha Roadstar. I had a Royal Enfield when I joined the BIR that I was planning to cafe just for laughs, but had to sell d/t some $ issues. I'm hoping to get back on a Brit this spring.

[Raphael]

Raphael,

With all due respect, why? If someone wants to dress like it's "1875", it's certainly their perogative to do so. Not all of us here wear the kilt as every day wear, nor do we wish to adopt the kilt to current fashion trends.

Todd

I may have misunderstood a few points that made by fellow xmarkers. We should all have the freedom to choose what we wear. Being a non-traditionalist, I will never push my fashion pointers to the traditionalist. There is no point and I really like the look of a tradtional out outfit. In fact, it was the regal nature of the traditional outfit that got me hooked on kilt.

However, It is only a hat. If I wear a hat while kilted, it is because I need to protect my noggin from the outside element. The choice of the hat is usually based on the colour and style. When wearing a flat cap, I am not trying to look traditional. I wear it because it is fashionable and many people wear one without too much thinking. You may not agree with my look, but that's okay.

[Livingston]

A fair question. I think that I have gone on record to say that in extremes of temperature, when frankly fashion,culture,heritage or,whatever should and must take second place. For extreme heat the Panama, Australian "slouch" hat, or, a topee would do nicely and for extreme cold well, how about one of those Russian army type things that sit on top of your head when things aren't too bad and can be folded down over you ears and around your neck thing, when things start getting chilly?

I agree with Jock - although I would add why not a cowboy hat or smokey bear especially for an American-Scot to keep the sun at bay, and a Canadian fur hat in the winter.

As for an alternative to the flatcap - a TOS or other bonnet.

Jock/Courtmount, thank you. Those answers are probably what everyone else is saying. Due to weather here in the States that is different from the British Isles, we do need to consider alternative headwear. To me, the flat cap looks fine. BUT, I know that my tastes are not what everyone else has. When I hear someone tell me that "this" does not work with "that" and I don't see what they are talking about, I prefer to ask "What does?" or "Could you explain why it doesn't?" One answer I saw earlier was that the flat cap isn't cut/made/designed right to wear with a kilt. So, could one of you explain that? If I can picture what you are talking about, I might end up agreeing with you.

[Good Egg]

I may have misunderstood a few points that made by fellow xmarkers. We should all have the freedom to choose what we wear. Being a non-traditionalist, I will never push my fashion pointers to the traditionalist. There is no point and I really like the look of a tradtional out outfit. In fact, it was the regal nature of the traditional outfit that got me hooked on kilt.

However, It is only a hat. If I wear a hat while kilted, it is because I need to protect my noggin from the outside element. The choice of the hat is usually based on the colour and style. When wearing a flat cap, I am not trying to look traditional. I wear it because it is fashionable and many people wear one without too much thinking. You may not agree with my look, but that's okay.

The problem is that it looks as if you are trying to look conventional and have got it wrong - I'm speculating but perhaps that is why the flatcap/kilt combo raises hackles in unhyphenated Scots. Frankly I'm embarrassed for you, which of course I have no right to be, which just makes it worse.

Hope this deals with the above posters question as well.

[duchessofnc]

The problem is that it looks as if you are trying to look conventional and have got it wrong - I'm speculating but perhaps that is why the flatcap/kilt combo raises hackles in unhyphenated Scots. Frankly I'm embarrassed for you, which of course I have no right to be, which just makes it worse.

Hope this deals with the above posters question as well.

The problem you have here Courtmount is you're trying to interject your opinions into others by speculating upon their intentions (such as they are trying to look traditional). For example, the above you have speculated that you feel like Raphael is appearing to be traditional because of his flat cap when in fact you have no way to know what is going on in his head, or the rest of his outfit (who frequently wears utilikilts and the like).

Nor do you really know what is going on in the head of the other "natives" that do compliment American's on the combination. It could *gasps* be that they DO in fact like it and are NOT in fact being sarcastic and mean. It might be something that you would do but by and large I have found that a compliment is usually given in the vein that it is meant to be sincere.

On this board there are more non-traditionalists than traditionalists but that does not give you the right to be condescending to the non-traditionalists by saying you're embarrassed for them. It is in a word: rude. My apologies for my wee rant.

I know I will raise the hackles of many but I am like Raphael. I could care less what is on a persons head. I like the look of a flat cap because it has a french appearance that I find attractive. It must be the French blood that runs in my veins.

[Good Egg]

The problem you have here Courtmount is you're trying to interject your opinions into others by speculating upon their intentions (such as they are trying to look traditional). For example, the above you have speculated that you feel like Raphael is appearing to be traditional because of his flat cap when in fact you have no way to know what is going on in his head, or the rest of his outfit (who frequently wears utilikilts and the like).

Nor do you really know what is going on in the head of the other "natives" that do compliment American's on the combination. It could *gasps* be that they DO in fact like it and are NOT in fact being sarcastic and mean. It might be something that you would do but by and large I have found that a compliment is usually given in the vein that it is meant to be sincere.

On this board there are more non-traditionalists than traditionalists but that does not give you the right to be condescending to the non-traditionalists by saying you're embarrassed for them. It is in a word: rude. My apologies for my wee rant.

I know I will raise the hackles of many but I am like Raphael. I could care less what is on a persons head. I like the look of a flat cap because it has a french appearance that I find attractive. It must be the French blood that runs in my veins.

It looks as if they are trying to be conventional but have made a mistake. I may be wrong and they may have deliberately chosen to go against convention but it doesn't look as if they have.

I have already said I have no right to be embarrassed on others behalf, but as an Amero-phile (is that a word) I can't help it when I see somebody who I empathise with making (or appearing to make) an error.

You may also be right, maybe the compliments are sincerely meant but you will have noticed on this thread that the majority of unhyphenated Scots are in the anti flatcap/kilt camp so is it likley that you'd be getting sincere compliments, also we may be more culturally aware of how are fellow country men behave. There is a heavy leaning towards sarcasm and irony.

I do fully understand: its the fashion in America to wear a flat cap with a kilt. It is therefore thought to be conventional and American-Scots cannot understand why it might be thought of as a faux pas. The unhyphanated Scots cannot understand why our American cousins don't get it and won't be told and find this a bit embarrasing but. Ho hum... There are no rules. Just conventions.

[Phil]

I can't let 15 pages pass without a comment. I think, as Jock said earlier, flat caps tend to be looked upon as a badge of class. There is a saying here "She watched the hats 'till the caps went by". In other words she was so fussy about her choice of men all the good ones were gone and all she was left with was the rubbish. Personally I can see no reason, whatsoever, why anyone should be judged by the hat they wear and I would have no hesitation in wearing a flat cap with the most formal of kilt outfits if necessary due to weather conditions. I will be taking it off once indoors so who cares? If the weather is fine then my preference is not to wear any hat and I do feel that sporting a balmoral is a bit of an affectation in this day and age. That is my personal view so please all you balmoral groupies out there don't start attacking me. What you wear is your business as long as you don't do it in the street and frighten the horses!

Some famous hat wearers -
Alex Salmond, Scotland's First Minister


and - well we all know this one -

[Paul Henry]

To Courtmount, I think the reason why people are questioning your view, is simply that you are taking on the role of speaking for Scottish Kilt wearers, you might or might not be correct, but the point is that if anyone wants to wear a flat hat with a kilt , that is their choice. You constantly seem to be stating that "unhyphenated Scots" (your words) think that a flat cap is wrong, so be it, if that is what you think, but I believe that we have all got your message, so perhaps it's time to let this thread be retired?

[Good Egg]

I must be bored - I'm only coming back because people are either misunderstanding what I've said or are asking me specific questions.

I do think that its all been said now but if people want to keep going...