A new type of lowlife...kilt related

**O'Callaghan** · 6th February 09, 08:34 PM

I'm not a lawyer, but there are a couple of legal issues.

Firstly, you own the copyright in your photo, and if they photoshop it that makes it a 'derivative work', but AFAIK that doesn't save them from copyright infringement.

Secondly, if they try to "pass off" their product as yours, that is a separate tort, if you can prove it.

I'm assuming Ontario law is somewhat like England. The Americans talk about a "trade dress" action instead of a "passing off" action, although it's much the same thing. Canada? It's hard to say.

Find an Ontario lawyer before you sue them, and I agree that pursuing them through eBay is easier than going to law.

**xena** · 6th February 09, 08:54 PM

If I found the right Ebay store, it looks like they've done the same thing to other products as well. There are numerous products that look like they've had identifying markers photoshopped out of them.

It's not big, and it's not clever...

**sathor** · 6th February 09, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by xena

If I found the right Ebay store, it looks like they've done the same thing to other products as well. There are numerous products that look like they've had identifying markers photoshopped out of them.

It's not big, and it's not clever...

is it the place with corsettes for men and women? (Really, that creeped me out.)

**Canuck** · 6th February 09, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by sathor

is it the place with corsettes for men and women? (Really, that creeped me out.)

Throughout history they had corsets for men, granted not what is being promoted these days but ah...let's not go there.

**Canuck** · 6th February 09, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by sathor

as a basic 'demo' ...

these images are from the leather kilt page. (I picked that page because one day I will be able to afford one of those.)

This is among the most basic watermarks, meant to be both unobtrusive, but still there. (Of course, you could make much fancier ones, but this is what I use for my pro photos when they are on websites.)

Nicely done, I like that. ( edited picture out 'cause I just did)

**ccga3359** · 6th February 09, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by sathor

Wow, I like that car. It is a car, right? Or is it some kind of boat? Still, I like.

It is a car a 3 wheeler, a Reliant Robin but my all time fav was the Bond Bug 3.

**Cavebear58** · 7th February 09, 12:50 AM

Originally Posted by Canuck

Using my ebay account I asked the seller a question. I asked if the kilt pictured is the one I would get. He replied yes...

Yes I have the design registered in Canada as for the U.S. that's a different ballgame and different laws....

Yes I should take up the many offers from the offshore companies and have them make my design of kilt and sell them. What am I thinking! I'm crazy spending hours sewing a tailored garment when I could get some other person to do it for pennies. Heck wouldn't have to spend time with a customer, show them how their kilt is going to be made. Wouldn't have to hand pick the hides myself. I could use the nappa leather that has been refinished a number of times....

So why is it my nose is out of joint? I just wonder why they can't take a picture of their own product and post it? It's what I do. It's what most of the merchants you value here do....

Thanks Ron.

I do see where you are coming from. It certainly seems unbelievably odd to go to the trouble of visiting you, photographing the kilt, presumably copying the design, commissioning products, etc, only to THEN use the original photograph rather than taking one of his own product.

In your original post, I didn't see the bit that he had said this was THE item that you were going to win if you bid for it. eBay is a bit odd for this - i've often seen kiltie bits that are described as "this is the one you'll get" and then seen that they have multiple items for sale! Given that he has said that, I TOTALLY agree that he is breaking eBay's rules.

I'm glad that you have the design registered. In my work we deal only in ideas and I have to smile when I see the antics folks get up to 'protecting' something quite trivial. I have become quite blase about it - I realise that the same isn't true in manufacturing.

I don't know who the North American equivalents would be, but in the UK at some stage, Messrs Marks, Spencer, Burton, and a host of others had to decide whether to continue to measure men for suits and to maintain a room of tailors and seamstresses or to 'outsource' production. I don't hold it against a company for doing so, provided that certain human rights are maintained. In some cases, I'm afraid, I've come across bespoke hand tailored suits that have been poorer quality than those made somewhere in the developing nations. I don't think you can even say that "what you get is what you pay for".

For some reason, the kilt industry seems to do an enormous amount of photographic copying. I mentioned it a couple of says ago in a post. I even saw the same photo being used to ilustrate one of the c.r.a.p. kilts and one of the "Our kilts are far superior than the c.r.a.p. ones" kilts. Sadly, the latter was on the website of one of the XMarks members sites!

As you say, there's bigger issues. I wonder what you could take from this experience that would help your own business step into another league (if you felt inclined to do so)?

All the best, Graham.

**BEEDEE** · 7th February 09, 05:41 AM

REPORT THEM TO EBAY. Do it now! If you can satisfy eBay as to your merits they will at least delete the listings and if more than one complaint comes in at the same time they may withdraw this operation.

Brian

**Canuck** · 7th February 09, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by Cavebear58

Thanks Ron.

snip.....
As you say, there's bigger issues. I wonder what you could take from this experience that would help your own business step into another league (if you felt inclined to do so)?

All the best, Graham.

I guess for one, discourage a person from taking a picture of the product in my retail space and offer them a business card that directs them to the website that has photo's that are watermarked and copyrighted.
Maintain my code of conduct and ethics. other companies come and go, the marketplace will determine to the extent they are successful or not.
Cheers
Robert

**sathor** · 7th February 09, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by Canuck

I guess for one, discourage a person from taking a picture of the product in my retail space and offer them a business card that directs them to the website that has photo's that are watermarked and copyrighted.
Maintain my code of conduct and ethics. other companies come and go, the marketplace will determine to the extent they are successful or not.
Cheers
Robert

Make the tags more prominent, in a special shape? I do find it odd that the seller had a perfect rating, seems, well, odd.