A brutal lesson in marketing: EarthKilt

[The Barry]

That's too bad that your idea isn't panning out as you had hoped. Chin up, you might pull this thing off yet!

[Nanook]

If I wanted to be TRULY environmentally sound, and utterly minimize my impact, and never ever participate in any socially unjust system in any way then I would have to properly dispose of all my long-term impact goods like consumer electronics and then retreat to a primitive lifestyle.

No. Those are the arguments that have for the post WW-II era resulted in the current problems. Its not a question of "minimal" impact but of consciousness. Organic farming does not mean renewable. It does not even mean "ecologically better". Have a look at the massive conversion of biodiverse Asian rainforests to oil-palm (mono)cultivation (Malaysia and Indonesia is nearly half of all cultivated land). Logging is money and oil is money and the "hip" consumers in San Francisco get their "renewable" wood (after the valuable tropical wood is sold) and palm oil for their "bio-fuels" to run in their motorcars.
Among "organic" produce one really needs to distinguish between "renewable" (rain feed, non destructive) and "organic". Among "organic" one must distinguish between between the blanket term "organic" and the more specific method of "biodynamic"--- the later following the works of Rudolf Steiner explicitly declare any product even those grown using "Biodynamic methods" as non Biodynamic if not gown and consumed in the same local area (so much for the "Demeter" branded "Biodynamic" Tomatoes from Spain in British shops). "Organic" certification too, like palm oil, is about MONEY. Only wealthy agrar businesses can afford to get organic certification. GM on the one front and organic (again without certification you can't get more money for your crop) are both tools being used to squeeze the rural and force them to leave the land and move to the cities.
Using "third world" subcontactors to sew garments might sound "nice' but these labourers are themselves products of the destructive agriculture and forced urbanization. They seem attractive since they are cheap and "Fair trade" sound good but.. as soon as the products are not unique to the local area this contributes not just to the destruction of more land--- really a chicken and egg situation--- but pushes to exploit ones own local labour force who are directly forced to compete with them.
Following this line of reasoning, I fear that your "Earth Kilt" was perhaps even less global impact "conscious" than a pair of Bangladesh blue jeans.
There is significant garment production capacity in Los Angeles and even San Francisco. There is absolutely no reason why kilts can't be sewn in San Francisco (in fact there are many reasons why it can and why Latin America is not a good choice). Material? The environmental balance of Scottish tartan is very good and better than ANY organic cotton cloth I can imagine you would ever get your hands on. Scottish tartan cloth from wool production to dyeing to weaving and even transport its nearly ideal. How about "organic" Harris or Island tweed (wool from local sheep, woven by hand without electricity, organic dyes etc.)? I'm sorry but a Scottish (or American) sewn kilt using Scottish tartan is more an "Earth kilt" in spirit than your concept in name.

[tyger]

.....and remember, the climate on earth is always changing. Warmer, cooler, warmer, cooler, for billenia. Not to mention the fact that scientic evidence tells us that increased atmospheric carbon dioxide is in response to warming, not the cause of warming!

[sathor]

.....and remember, the climate on earth is always changing. Warmer, cooler, warmer, cooler, for billenia. Not to mention the fact that scientic evidence tells us that increased atmospheric carbon dioxide is in response to warming, not the cause of warming!

I saw a thing from some Japenese Scientist that said that global warming actually reversed a few years back and we're actually cooling off.

[Pleater]

The term global warming refers simply to the average temperatures globally.

They are going up - that is why many of us are likely to see the North pole entirely ice free in summer. Sea levels will rise.

We might also see Polar bears falling through the ice and drowning as they venture out to try to find food before the ice is thick enough in the Autumn, due to their long fast when there is no ice for them to hunt seals on. They will, of course, not survive as a species in the wild.

With the average temperatures higher, there will be climate change, and that will make some places colder than in living memory, and others hotter, as the weather alters, rainfall changes, the ranges of various plants and animals will change, some species will not do well in their normal places, others will flourish as they colonise more land.

The changes we have seen so far are not outside normal ranges, not for temperature nor Carbon Dioxide and other greenhouse gasses - but the rate of change is much faster than any natural process the Earth has experienced before, and in nature, the faster the further is the usual rule.

I wish there was better news.

Anne the Pleater

[cessna152towser]

While the polar ice caps may be warming, surely this is balanced out by other areas becoming colder, whatever happened to those long hot summers of our childhoods? Natural climate change, yes, but no I do not believe global warming is actually happening.

[pdcorlis]

Oh good grief - is that what this thread has come to?

[Alan H]

There is significant garment production capacity in Los Angeles and even San Francisco. There is absolutely no reason why kilts can't be sewn in San Francisco (in fact there are many reasons why it can and why Latin America is not a good choice).

The project is dead. However, if you'd read anything at all about what the goals were for the project, you'd know why I wanted them sewn up in El Salvador, and not San Francisco.

Material? The environmental balance of Scottish tartan is very good and better than ANY organic cotton cloth I can imagine you would ever get your hands on.

Again, if you'd read what the the project was about you'd know that I wasn't proposing making it out of organic cotton, but rather out of a hemp/recycled polyester blend.

Scottish tartan cloth from wool production to dyeing to weaving and even transport its nearly ideal. How about "organic" Harris or Island tweed (wool from local sheep, woven by hand without electricity, organic dyes etc.)?

Harris Tweed is an exceptional fabric from many standpoints, but if we want to get picky about it, let's talk about the impact that sheep grazing has had on the biodiversity of Scotland. I mean, how far do you want to go down the environmentally responsible trail? If transport of tartan or tweed from the UK to North America is so ideal, then what's the difference between that transport, and transport between El Salvador and the USA? They both use ships and airplanes, eh?

I'm sorry but a Scottish (or American) sewn kilt using Scottish tartan is more an "Earth kilt" in spirit than your concept in name.

I quite strongly disagree. I think they're about equal.

I AGREE with your point that shipping raw materials and finished products all over the world is not the most environmentally sound way to do things. Absolutely I agree with that. I rather have a problem with you saying that it's OK so ship some things around the world, such as tweed, but not OK to ship other things such as hemp/polyester blend material.

The project is dead from the point of view of the expense of shipping and the tarriff issue, as well as the fact that I can't find anyone to sell the things. The cost of labour in El Salvador is much less than it is in the United States, especially in the San Francisco Bay Area. It so worked out that the combined cost of shipping plus tarriffs made up for the roughly seventy-two dollars a day difference in labour wages between the two places. I don't see the point in bringing yet another $180 + kilt to market, for the feel-good benefit of keeping two, at most three El Salvadorean women who are barely making a living, eating on a regular basis. I'd like to help them, but the amount of work and the likelihood of success of significant sales is minimal.

[DWFII]

Twice in the space of about 9 months, on the Science Daily website, I saw articles that stated Danish scientists were offering evidence that other "planets" in our solar system were also warming. I say "planets" because aside from Mars, among the examples given, if I recall correctly, was one of the Galilean moons of Jupiter.

There must be someone...here on Earth...we can blame!

Of course, these kinds of reports never gain any currency in US media.

[Kiltedmusiclover]

Folks, Please let us return to the topic of this thread.
Our views on global warming are not really a part of
Alan's hopes for getting this company off the ground.