Wearing a PC in the Daytime??

[McMurdo]

Jock I can not help but agree with you, to my mind, and this is my experience, being properly dressed for Black or White Tie has absolutely nothing to do with geography. Black Tie Highland wear should be the same the world over, and it should not be seen before 6PM those are the conventions. It should not matter where in the world the original poster is, it is not proper to wear Black tie attire during the day, notwithstanding the fact that conventions are changing.

I also find it interesting that a simple question like this one can degrade into yet another traditional vs non conformist thread. The original poster simply wanted a traditionalist view on wearing a PC during the day, if you are a non conformist why bother answering it?

[DWFII]

Jock I can not help but agree with you, to my mind, and this is my experience, being properly dressed for Black or White Tie has absolutely nothing to do with geography. Black Tie Highland wear should be the same the world over, and it should not be seen before 6PM those are the conventions. It should not matter where in the world the original poster is, it is not proper to wear Black tie attire during the day, notwithstanding the fact that conventions are changing.

I also find it interesting that a simple question like this one can degrade into yet another traditional vs non conformist thread. The original poster simply wanted a traditionalist view on wearing a PC during the day, if you are a non conformist why bother answering it?

I agree with all of this, Glen.

To my way of looking at it, it is really of no consequence that some portions of American society disdain...or are woefully ignorant of...formal wear conventions. They're free to disregard such conventions (or wallow in their ignorance) as they please.

But!...that doesn't change the fact that formal wear conventions do exist and that if one is even thinking of wearing black tie, then it is the better part of wisdom to abide by black tie rules. As you say, "Black Tie Highland wear should be the same the world over."

Asking the question is the first step in getting it right...ignoring the answer puts one right back where they started.

As for the second part of your remark...what I find interesting is that even in a sub-forum that is ostensibly focused on Traditional Highland Attire, somehow the "non-conformist" point of view creeps in. I can understand (and even to some degree applaud at least the spirit) the broad and eclectic mix of opinions elsewhere on Xmarks. But in this context, it almost seems deliberately provocative, in my opinion. I mean I have never even been tempted to jump in and offer my, admittedly narrow(er) views in the "Contemporary and Non-Traditional" sub-forum. I don't even open that section, to tell the truth.

[Panache]

It strikes me Jock that 'traditional" is a poor word to convey the style of highland wear you and others advocate.

"Traditional" can mean a great kilt (very old tradition)

"Traditional": can mean a PC and white hose (very modern tradition)

I think we need a new word.

A way to define the style of highland wear that flourished between World War I and World War II.

I can think of no better description than "Classic"

"Classic" is not old fashioned, yet it is not modern.

"Classic" is timeless

"Classic" never goes out of style (Think for a minute of Humphrey Boggart in his trench coat in Casablanca, Sean Connery in Goldfinger, and Cary Grant in...well anything. They looked darn good then, and they would look darn good today! )

I think that if we can make a small shift in our thinking here on XMTS we would end this silly problem.

Question: Can I wear white hose with my Prince Charlie Coatee?

Jock: Well you can, people do nowadays. However the classic look is to wear diced or argyll hose. It just is the way that i have always done it and it always looks right.

What say you Jock?

ith:

Cheers

Jamie

[Jock Scot]

It strikes me Jock that 'traditional" is a poor word to convey the style of highland wear you and others advocate.

"Traditional" can mean a great kilt (very old tradition)

"Traditional": can mean a PC and white hose (very modern tradition)

I think we need a new word.

A way to define the style of highland wear that flourished between World War I and World War II.

I can think of no better description than "Classic"

"Classic" is not old fashioned, yet it is not modern.

"Classic" is timeless

"Classic" never goes out of style (Think for a minute of Humphrey Boggart in his trench coat in Casablanca, Sean Connery in Goldfinger, and Cary Grant in...well anything. They looked darn good then, and they would look darn good today! )

I think that if we can make a small shift in our thinking here on XMTS we would end this silly problem.

Question: Can I wear white hose with my Prince Charlie Coatee?

Jock: Well you can, people do nowadays. However the classic look is to wear diced or argyll hose. It just is the way that i have always done it and it always looks right.

What say you Jock?

ith:

Cheers

Jamie

I would like to think that is more or less my style of answering that sort of question. I may have strayed on occasion though! The trouble arises when someone chips in with the "you can't tell me what to wear,I am a ----- and no one tells me what and when I can wear-----------!"Well sorry, I can if I choose to(I am not making a big deal of this!Honest!) its my country's traditions that people are meddling with. Unwittingly, maybe,I grant you.

[Panache]

I would like to think that is more or less my style of answering that sort of question. I may have strayed on occasion though! The trouble arises when someone chips in with the "you can't tell me what to wear,I am a ----- and no one tells me what and when I can wear-----------!"Well sorry, I can if I choose to(I am not making a big deal of this!Honest!) its my country's traditions that people are meddling with. Unwittingly, maybe,I grant you.

I do think that we need a separate forum for "classic" highland attire.

The Traditional kilt forum should be more or less about traditional kilts.

That is rather easy to regulate. When we start talking about style then a clear division between historical, classic, and modern ones with their own specific spot on XMTS would be useful.

Alan follows the conventions of the modern formal style.

You obviously are devoted to the classic one

Hamish happily glides through them all

Everyone looks good

As always Jock, I am very grateful for the information you and the others contribute. I like knowing the conventions. I may not always follow them (bucket hat) but I sure as heck want to make sure that when I do it is by choice.

Cheers

Jamie

[Panache]

DWFII,

I think you may have missed my point.

I wasn't arguing that white hose with formal wear was a good fashion at all

Neither was I arguing it was a bad fashion with formal wear.

I was simply stating that is was a valid fashion.

If people can accept that fashions they don't like are still valid fashions then everything is Jake.

Now when I was a young man I would go to store and purchased a nice pair of trousers I would wear them (in a very old fashion way) by pulling the waistband above my hip bones. I would secure them with belt and there they would stay.

Positively fossil-like I know many of you are thinking.

Now a modern fashion is to buy a pair of trousers and wear them midway up one's pelvis. This allows one to proudly display the top of one's under wear. Of course one must then walk carefully and be constantly hitching up one's pants, but this is a small price to pay for looking cool. It is a striking look and makes the bold statement "I do not run!" (because of course one couldn't without tripping).

I am not partial to this look.

In my eyes this particular look makes men look like a toddler with a full diaper.

But it is a fashion.

This I cannot deny.



The point I'm trying to make is that I absolutely HATE this look. But for me to deny it as a fashion would be silly.

I can say that I dislike the look, but I can't say the person sporting it is "wrong / not valid"

Cheers

Jamie

[Monkey@Arms]

If people can accept that fashions they don't like are still valid fashions then everything is Jake.

Sooo, now I'm the poster boy for all fashions people don't like?? Where's Grant when you need him?

Best regards,

You-know-who

[Phil]

Now a modern fashion is to buy a pair of trousers and wear them midway up one's pelvis. This allows one to proudly display the top of one's under wear. Of course one must then walk carefully and be constantly hitching up one's pants, but this is a small price to pay for looking cool. It is a striking look and makes the bold statement "I do not run!" (because of course one couldn't without tripping).

Without wishing to to turn the discussion to p@nts, I believe the fashion originated amongst the prison population as a result of them being denied wearing a belt (along with neckties, shoe laces and other potential ligatures). Quite why young people should regard this as cool is beyond me but it probably chimes with that other feature popular amongst them nowadays that was once the identifying mark of the prison population - tattoos.
Returning to the subject in hand, someone mentioned doublets. It is my understanding that it is quite proper to wear a doublet to a daytime function such as a wedding.

[Jock Scot]

I do think that we need a separate forum for "classic" highland attire.

The Traditional kilt forum should be more or less about traditional kilts.

That is rather easy to regulate. When we start talking about style then a clear division between historical, classic, and modern ones with their own specific spot on XMTS would be useful.

Alan follows the conventions of the modern formal style.

You obviously are devoted to the classic one

Hamish happily glides through them all

Everyone looks good

As always Jock, I am very grateful for the information you and the others contribute. I like knowing the conventions. I may not always follow them (bucket hat) but I sure as heck want to make sure that when I do it is by choice.

Cheers

Jamie

Jamie I have slept on this issue of "Clasical" and "traditional" definitions. I can see what you are trying to achieve and of course in this modern day and age of neat lables,boxes,etc. that would make life so much simpler. Try as I might I can't really see any differance between "Clasical" kilts and attire and "traditional" ones. They are one and the same thing in my view and have been, more or less, since about the 1820's.

[Bugbear]

Jamie I have slept on this issue of "Clasical" and "traditional" definitions. I can see what you are trying to achieve and of course in this modern day and age of neat lables,boxes,etc. that would make life so much simpler. Try as I might I can't really see any differance between "Clasical" kilts and "traditional" ones. They are one and the same thing in my view and have been, more or less, since about the 1820's.

Jock, I think Panache is talking about all the accessories like hose, sporrans, bonnets, doublets, Argyles, etc, rather than the actual kilt. So wearing a Prince Charlie with silver mounted fur sporran, tartan or diced hose, and black bow tie for black tie attire would be classic black tie attire. Or a tweed Argyle with waistcoat, self colored hose, and four-in-hand tie would be classic daywear in Highland attire.