Wearing a PC in the Daytime??

[McClef]

The width of the road does seem to depend upon who is driving down it.

Absolute rules to some are seen as variable to others and what is a tradition to one place is not that in another.

When I graduated from St Andrews it was in white tie, not because I chose but because this was the requirement of the institution. No doubt this requirement breaks every rule in the book in the eyes of some but there was no room for protest that it broke the white tie rules. Why this rule was/is there and where it started I still have no idea. But it is Scotland's oldest university and that is their tradition.

[Alan H]

Just to step back a bit....My intent was not to write "I'll wear what I want and all you people who have differing opinions can just XYZ"...but rather to say "There are many examples of people, even in Scotland, who wear the Prince Charlie coatee during the day, and even with white hose."

I actually tried to put some effort into not being confrontational. I may not have succeeded.

...and with that I think I will bow out of the discussion!

[DWFII]

Jamie,

I am not trying to horn in on your response to Jock, and I don't want to take this too far afield, but following your advice, I thought I would offer this, perhaps overlooked, perspective on white hose.

I wear white sock with boots, I wear white socks with athletic shoes. In both cases, I tend to associate them with activities that require I change them regularly (or in the case of the boots, the socks and their state of cleanliness are hidden from view ). Now that's just me but I think most of American society tends to make somewhat the same associations.

If, for no other reason than I don't want to associate my kilt with a locker room, especially when dressing up a little, it is my opinion that white kilt hose are a little garish.

Beyond that, I think that the reason why white hose are so popular is because the kilt hire folks can cheaply keep a large stock of white hose and they don't have to make a decision for a less-than-certain customer about what colour of hose to wear with a kilt.

What I'm getting at is that white hose is a "convention" promoted by rental firms. To the extent that we buy into that notion, we cheapen the whole look of the kilt...in my opinion. And the extent to which we permit a kilt hire mentality to be an acceptable source of convention...or something to emulate...is simply deplorable, in my further opinion.

Your mileage may vary...

[Panache]

I would like to think that is more or less my style of answering that sort of question. I may have strayed on occasion though! The trouble arises when someone chips in with the "you can't tell me what to wear,I am a ----- and no one tells me what and when I can wear-----------!"Well sorry, I can if I choose to(I am not making a big deal of this!Honest!) its my country's traditions that people are meddling with. Unwittingly, maybe,I grant you.

I do think that we need a separate forum for "classic" highland attire.

The Traditional kilt forum should be more or less about traditional kilts.

That is rather easy to regulate. When we start talking about style then a clear division between historical, classic, and modern ones with their own specific spot on XMTS would be useful.

Alan follows the conventions of the modern formal style.

You obviously are devoted to the classic one

Hamish happily glides through them all

Everyone looks good

As always Jock, I am very grateful for the information you and the others contribute. I like knowing the conventions. I may not always follow them (bucket hat) but I sure as heck want to make sure that when I do it is by choice.

Cheers

Jamie

[Alan H]

Well, actually, early adverts showing the "Prince Charlie" coatee show it being worn with -- GASP!!! Rathdown nearly swoons to write it-- WHITE TIE! After WWII the king relaxed the regulations for wearing white tie in the presence of Royals giving gentlemen who did not possess "evening dress" permission to wear black tie in it's stead. While doublets are certainly more formal than coatees, they are not strictly reserved for "white tie" events.

Interesting.... I had no idea. Thanks for the information!

[Panache]

DWFII,

I think you may have missed my point.

I wasn't arguing that white hose with formal wear was a good fashion at all

Neither was I arguing it was a bad fashion with formal wear.

I was simply stating that is was a valid fashion.

If people can accept that fashions they don't like are still valid fashions then everything is Jake.

Now when I was a young man I would go to store and purchased a nice pair of trousers I would wear them (in a very old fashion way) by pulling the waistband above my hip bones. I would secure them with belt and there they would stay.

Positively fossil-like I know many of you are thinking.

Now a modern fashion is to buy a pair of trousers and wear them midway up one's pelvis. This allows one to proudly display the top of one's under wear. Of course one must then walk carefully and be constantly hitching up one's pants, but this is a small price to pay for looking cool. It is a striking look and makes the bold statement "I do not run!" (because of course one couldn't without tripping).

I am not partial to this look.

In my eyes this particular look makes men look like a toddler with a full diaper.

But it is a fashion.

This I cannot deny.



The point I'm trying to make is that I absolutely HATE this look. But for me to deny it as a fashion would be silly.

I can say that I dislike the look, but I can't say the person sporting it is "wrong / not valid"

Cheers

Jamie

[Jock Scot]

Just to step back a bit....My intent was not to write "I'll wear what I want and all you people who have differing opinions can just XYZ"...but rather to say "There are many examples of people, even in Scotland, who wear the Prince Charlie coatee during the day, and even with white hose."

I actually tried to put some effort into not being confrontational. I may not have succeeded.

...and with that I think I will bow out of the discussion!

Actually Alan, I was not getting at you specifically! I do apologise if I gave that impression. I was thinking of the war cry that leaps from these threads all to often and not from your pen. You have your views and if I may say so, I respect them very much. Yes I am sure that a lot of this blurring of convention is due to the hire firms going for the "common denominator" look,but that does not make that look right, or, dare I say, correct. Might I also add that there must always be room for a spot of individual "flair" too, to liven up ones attire on occasion.

[Alan H]

No worries, Jock.....carry on!

A question for you....If someone in, say Nevada in the USA, or perhaps in Argentina wears a kilt, and by this I mean a tartan kilt of at least more-or-less traditional form and construction, is he obligated in some moral/ethical manner to observe long-standing Scottish tradition on what's worn with the kilt? Please note that I'm not asking if it would be "smart" or "wise" of him to be acquainted with these traditions, but whether he has an ethical obligation to know and hew to these traditions.

(the notion of "long-standing" being a tough one to pin down, but let's say "long-standing" means through the current wearers parents generation. This means that if Pablo in Argentina wears a kilt, does he have an ethical duty to observe the kilt-wearing traditions current during his grandfathers and/or fathers generation? ..)

The corollary would be, of course, if someone in Scotland chose to wear, say, traditional Indian garments, or Japanese clothing, would they have a moral obligation to understand and adhere to traditional conventions on how they are worn.

[Bugbear]

Classic Highland attire! I like the sound of that.

[Alan H]

I keep re-writing the above post and I know I'm getting it wrong, because Jock, as you have pointed out over and over, the "tradtitions" which you hold dear are not something of your grandfathers generation, they are what people of your acquaintance RIGHT NOW, adhere to.... though your grandfather might have pretty well approved of them.