Style, Fashion Rules, traditions, Flat caps, and the missing element...

[Friday]

As we discuss this and other items on this forum, and a nice discussion this is, some things come to mind. I choose to believe that we all realize these things but they might not always on the top of our minds or the tips of our tongues fingers as we type.

We are talking in written word. The facial clues, body language and voice inflections that are use during verbal conversations to convey much, if not most, meaning to our words are not present. So we need to think is that even though the words I am typing are the word I am "saying" do they convey exactly what I mean.

This is an international forum even it there were only one language spoken around the world words often have region meanings or submeaning that may not be known to all. As someone once said the US and England are two countries separated by a common language. As I read through many threads it becomes clear that often one writers reaction are to words that may not have been understood to mean the same thing as the writer intended. As the thread continues you can see the two come together as a common meaning is reached.

In my opinion I often wear a kilt and other times wear a wrap-a-round skirt pleated in the back and with and over and under apron. By this I mean that when I am wearing a kilt I am trying to honor my Scottish ancestors and as such which to follow traditions as much as possible. On the other hand there are time in which I choose to wear a comfortable piece of clothing that may or may not be plaid, but I am not trying to look like a highlander but a comfortable person. I personally do not believe that wearing comfortable clothing as I like is disrespectful to any one or any culture. I have a friend who is into punk and has punked out a kilt. His style not mine, I do not like the look but knowing this person I know that it is not done to disrespect by to bring his style to a piece of clothing.

Also as we look at kilt attire we must also adjust for the fact that wearing a kilt is becoming more and more international. Because of this some changes need to be made for the difference in location. I live in the eastern United States 100s of mile south of the where the highland of Scotland lay. I am also 100s of miles from the ocean and even though I am not at sea level the altitude is not as high as the we hills of the highland. The though of wearing a wool jacket and vest for most of the year brings images of a sauna to mind. I like the look and style of jacket and vest with a kilt, but I would imagine that some would look at a light weight cotton/linen jacket and vest disrespectful to highland customs and traditions. For me it is a fact of reality adapting to the local conditions.

In closing I see nothing wrong with Grant's chicken sporran he is just honoring his families traditional role as chicken rustlers. If you stick chickens under you belt you can carry more than if you use hands alone.

[The picture of Grant's chicken sporran should serve as a reminder that anything posted on the internet will live forever. I assume that that picture will still be around in 100 years. Grant the immortal kilt wearer.}

[macwilkin]

The though of wearing a wool jacket and vest for most of the year brings images of a sauna to mind. I like the look and style of jacket and vest with a kilt, but I would imagine that some would look at a light weight cotton/linen jacket and vest disrespectful to highland customs and traditions. For me it is a fact of reality adapting to the local conditions.

As a traditionalist, I would agree with this. Thompson actually discusses this point in his wee book, and so does Bob Martin.

Remember, the Highland regiments of the British Army adopted particular articles of clothing for service in tropic climes, such as white tunics, pith helmets, etc. It stands to reason that an American civilian in the South might adopt a light weight cotton jacket and waistcoat.

Regards,

Todd

[Friday]

As a traditionalist, I wouldn't.

Which is perfectly correct and right and I will defend your right to this opinion, as WRONG as it is.

I grew up in Maryland with my family coming from West Virginia. Early in my career I moved to south Florida and would often go out to the middle of the road to stare at the strip in the road. I just needed to see a change in elevation. I then move to Memphis for a number of years. My wife and I spent many a weekend driving and visiting through out the Ozarks to enjoy the mountains and the people.

As I think back I can see the influence of the early Scottish settlers in the local culture. I would like to see if/how the highlander that first came to the Ozarks adapted their "traditional" wear to the needs of the area. If I remember correctly there was often a 10 or more degree (F) change in temperature between the flats of Memphis and the wee hill of the Ozarks.

[macwilkin]

Which is perfectly correct and right and I will defend your right to this opinion, as WRONG as it is.

I grew up in Maryland with my family coming from West Virginia. Early in my career I moved to south Florida and would often go out to the middle of the road to stare at the strip in the road. I just needed to see a change in elevation. I then move to Memphis for a number of years. My wife and I spent many a weekend driving and visiting through out the Ozarks to enjoy the mountains and the people.

As I think back I can see the influence of the early Scottish settlers in the local culture. I would like to see if/how the highlander that first came to the Ozarks adapted their "traditional" wear to the needs of the area. If I remember correctly there was often a 10 or more degree (F) change in temperature between the flats of Memphis and the wee hill of the Ozarks.

You misunderstand me, sir -- I am supporting your idea, not condemning it. My sincere apologies for lack of typing skills this morning. Read my second paragraph.

Not many Highlanders in the Ozarks, mostly Ulster-Scots, Lowlanders and Borderers, neither of which were very keen on kilts and all that.

So, again...I agree with you. :mrgreen:

T.

[Friday]

You misunderstand me, sir -- I am supporting your idea, not condemning it. My sincere apologies for lack of typing skills this morning. Read my second paragraph.

Not many Highlanders in the Ozarks, mostly Ulster-Scots, Lowlanders and Borderers, neither of which were very keen on kilts and all that.

So, again...I agree with you. :mrgreen:

T.

And the same right back, I agree with you.

I fully understood that you were defending my opinion, as wrong as it is for you. But that is what make this a great place we can all be right and all be wrong on the same subject. My opinion is just that MY opinion. I do not believe that my opinion is right or applies to anyone else but me. I don't even believe my opinion applies to my wife, just to me.

Perhaps if I had more money or weighted 100+ pounds less I would be more of a traditionalist. But the fat tax on kilts and kilt related clothing make me be very creative most of the time. This might be part of the reason I often chaff when I interpret a statement as this is how you MUST wear a piece of clothing. I would like to but don't have the extra cash to purchase what is needed.

Todd thank you for you participation and insight that you give.

Chris

[JSFMACLJR]

Perhaps if I had more money or weighted 100+ pounds less I would be more of a traditionalist. But the fat tax on kilts and kilt related clothing make me be very creative most of the time. This might be part of the reason I often chaff when I interpret a statement as this is how you MUST wear a piece of clothing. I would like to but don't have the extra cash to purchase what is needed.

Chris

Money is often the canard used by some to say they cannot afford "traditional" clothing. Actually, it is more a matter of priorities. There is much to be said about saving one's coin for the better quality item. Scotus began a thread discussing this very concept, to which I draw your attention.

[Friday]

Money is often the canard used by some to say they cannot afford "traditional" clothing. Actually, it is more a matter of priorities.

First I am not sure what a French duck has to do with the situation.
(yes bad joke)

Yes, it is a matter of priorities and based on my personal situation the family first priorities I have make many things out of my reach. I am very handy with needle and thread and would like to modify a thrift store jacket into a kilt jacket, but have not been able to find one in my size. I would like to have a tank in my family tartan but have higher family priorities than what the base cost would be much less the additional cost because of my size. I have been able to purchase a nice semi-traditional USA kilt and have made a couple of others, but to some these are not "traditional".

Maybe I do have the wrong priorities, I don't think so,

[macwilkin]

I fully understood that you were defending my opinion, as wrong as it is for you.

I'm not sure I quite understand why it is "wrong" for me to agree with your position.

T.

[Friday]

I'm not sure I quite understand why it is "wrong" for me to agree with your position.

T.

Ah back to my original post in this thread, I am not sure, if what I am saying (thinking), what I am typing and what you are hearing are the same.

What I was trying to say, in a joking way, therefore the , that in your opinion, for you to wear cotton/linen jacket and vest (my opinion) is wrong. Not that my having this opinion is wrong just that the object of my opinion does not work for you.

[Panache]

... The though of wearing a wool jacket and vest for most of the year brings images of a sauna to mind. I like the look and style of jacket and vest with a kilt, but I would imagine that some would look at a light weight cotton/linen jacket and vest disrespectful to highland customs and traditions. For me it is a fact of reality adapting to the local conditions.

Friday,

Take a look at these two jacket / waist coat combinations







These are cotton twill jackets from Target. They are by the "One Star" brand marketed to young hip people (which is interesting as I am neither young nor hip ).

They are lightweight jackets and good for warm weather. I liked the way they looked and my wife shortened them and added the sporran cutaway and added epaulets.

The vest is corduroy, also from Target and also shorten by my wife.

I make no claim that they are in any way traditional Highland attire.

Now we certainly took a page from the traditional Highland attire to get them the right length and adding the epaulets to the jackets that for some reason just look so right with kilts.

But I think they work and are practical for the weather we have here in California.

Most importantly, they reflect my own kilted style.

Cheers

Jamie