How Long to Make a Tradition

[davedove]

Something that has come up many times on this forum is the issue of the tradition of tartan and the kilt. Many speak of the association of tartan with families and the traditions behind it. Others will immediately chime in about how the association of a specific tartan to a clan is only a couple of centuries old, so it really doesn't mean much.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I do have a question for those who discount the "short" traditions. The traditions of the US Marine Corps are about the same age as the association of tartans and families. Do the traditions of the Corps not mean anything because they are only a couple of centuries old? And what about the beliefs inherent in the US system of government? That's also about the same age; are they not valid because they're so new?

Now, I do agree that we shouldn't perpetuate the myth that ancient Scots climbed out of the primordial ooze wearing tartan, and there do seem to be some that believe that. But at the same time we shouldn't discount someone's traditions because they "haven't been around long enough." Just because someone's traditions aren't ancient doesn't mean they aren't valid.

If it's not your tradition, no one should say you have to follow it. But at the same time, don't ridicule those who do.

[DWFII]

Something that has come up many times on this forum is the issue of the tradition of tartan and the kilt. Many speak of the association of tartan with families and the traditions behind it. Others will immediately chime in about how the association of a specific tartan to a clan is only a couple of centuries old, so it really doesn't mean much.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I do have a question for those who discount the "short" traditions. The traditions of the US Marine Corps are about the same age as the association of tartans and families. Do the traditions of the Corps not mean anything because they are only a couple of centuries old? And what about the beliefs inherent in the US system of government? That's also about the same age; are they not valid because they're so new?

Now, I do agree that we shouldn't perpetuate the myth that ancient Scots climbed out of the primordial ooze wearing tartan, and there do seem to be some that believe that. But at the same time we shouldn't discount someone's traditions because they "haven't been around long enough." Just because someone's traditions aren't ancient doesn't mean they aren't valid.

If it's not your tradition, no one should say you have to follow it. But at the same time, don't ridicule those who do.

Coming at this from a "logic only" direction, I would have to say (my opinion only) that for a tradition to become a "tradition" it has to be established in one generation and passed down through enough generations that the originating generation is no longer alive.

And it must continue to be honoured virtually unchanged and passed down to the next generation of its own accord.

So...if a generation is 7 years (I read that somewhere...correct me if I'm wrong) then I would say that it would require roughly seven generations to see the passing of the originating generation...or about fifty years.

Of course, if a style or convention has been passed down unchanged for say, 20 generations, it becomes something more than a tradition even though we call still call it a "tradition."

[Twa_Corbies]

To quote the Beatles...."It's all in your head."

[Peter C.]

You make a good point, especially as today is St Patricks Day.

The first St Patricks day parade was held in Boston in 1761, and the first one in New York was 1762 when the Irish soldiers of the English army marched through the streets with their music. The first St Patricks Day parade was held in Dublin Ireland in 1931 but I don't think anyone would say that it was not an Irish tradition just because they had only been doing it for 80 years, or that they couldn't do it because it was an American tradition.

So I'm with you.

Peter

[Jock Scot]

Just like a journey starts with the first step,traditions start with the first idea that "something" is worth preserving.

[macwilkin]

You make a good point, especially as today is St Patricks Day.

The first St Patricks day parade was held in Boston in 1761, and the first one in New York was 1762 when the Irish soldiers of the English army marched through the streets with their music. The first St Patricks Day parade was held in Dublin Ireland in 1931 but I don't think anyone would say that it was not an Irish tradition just because they had only been doing it for 80 years, or that they couldn't do it because it was an American tradition.

So I'm with you.

Peter

Actually, Boston claims the "first" St. Patrick's Day parade in 1737, in competition with the New York parade in 1761.

Regards,

Todd

[Cynthia]

Just like a journey starts with the first step,traditions start with the first idea that "something" is worth preserving.

Beautifully put!

[kiltedwolfman]

Perhaps a tradition becomes so, 5 minutes after the first argument of whether or not it is so.

Hehe just a thought

[Phil]

I think something only becomes a "tradition" when those celebrating it are too young to remember when and why it started and carry on celebrating whatever it is "because it is traditional". Mother's Day for instance is a fairly recent celebration in Britain, only dating back to the 1940's. Father's Day is an even more recent import dating back to the 1970's in Britain, probably encouraged by the card-making industry. I am sure there are many other similar examples of recently acquired "tradition".

[Twa_Corbies]

Perhaps something becomes a tradition at the point where it is no longer remembered why it is done other than out of respect for "tradition".