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16th March 09, 08:57 AM
#41
Still, the chief, and only the chief, of the clan decides what the clan tartan is. For example, the infamous, yet attractive Black MacMillan tartan that the chief does not recognize as a MacMillan tartan.
Tartans, in the hear and now, ar associated with groups and clans, and it is important to keep that in mind along with the myths of tartan history.
I tried to ask my inner curmudgeon before posting, but he sprayed me with the garden hose…
Yes, I have squirrels in my brain…
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16th March 09, 09:14 AM
#42
 Originally Posted by Ted Crocker
Still, the chief, and only the chief, of the clan decides what the clan tartan is. For example, the infamous, yet attractive Black MacMillan tartan that the chief does not recognize as a MacMillan tartan.
Tartans, in the hear and now, ar associated with groups and clans, and it is important to keep that in mind along with the myths of tartan history.
Technically that is true, but there are cases where tartans were named by textile manufacturers like Wilsons without any input from the chiefs of the clans in question, and there were cases where some chiefs didn't have any idea of what tartan they considered appropriate to their clan.
The chief of a clan has the right to endorse tartans for wear as tartans of his clan; but most of the tartans that have been endorsed were named by early tartan manufacturers or invented by the Sobieski-Stuart brothers who created quite a number of clan tartans in the early 1800's (including many for Lowland clans - so some Lowland clan tartans are just as old and historic as some Highland clan tartans).
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16th March 09, 09:27 AM
#43
Yes.
Just saying, don't show up at a MacMillan clan gathering in a Black MacMillan tartan kilt and start telling people that it is the clan tartan. The chief says it isn't and that is the final and only word on the matter. Same with the cap badges etc.
In other words, be aware that many tartans have meanings now, and some people take that very much to heart.
I tried to ask my inner curmudgeon before posting, but he sprayed me with the garden hose…
Yes, I have squirrels in my brain…
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16th March 09, 10:17 AM
#44
I think the Leatherneck it a very good choice myself, since I am very partial to it. It's plain to see you are getting some very good input from all, that's what I like about the people here, very knowledgeable...
“Don’t judge each day by the harvest you reap, but by the seeds you plant.”
– Robert Louis Stevenson
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17th March 09, 05:42 AM
#45
 Originally Posted by Ted Crocker
Yes.
Just saying, don't show up at a MacMillan clan gathering in a Black MacMillan tartan kilt and start telling people that it is the clan tartan. The chief says it isn't and that is the final and only word on the matter. Same with the cap badges etc.
In other words, be aware that many tartans have meanings now, and some people take that very much to heart.
I've never seen this Black MacMillan tartan that you are referring to. The only MacMillan tartans I'm familiar with are the one that looks a bit like Buchannan; the yellow dress MacMillan tartan, and the hunting MacMillan (which to my eye is the most attractive of the three).
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17th March 09, 10:06 AM
#46
There's a whole thread on the "MacMillan Black" tartan, but I don't have a link right off. Some of my relatives are of a sept of the MacMillan clan, so I've kept an eye on the discussion. Nice tartan, from the thread count, but not a MacMillan tartan.
I tried to ask my inner curmudgeon before posting, but he sprayed me with the garden hose…
Yes, I have squirrels in my brain…
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20th March 09, 07:34 AM
#47
Start your own clan and design your own tartan. Register your own personal coat of arms and clan badge. Start your own dynasty. Harbison I
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20th March 09, 08:18 AM
#48
 Originally Posted by Nick the DSM
Isn't Smith from clan Gow??
One is a translation of the other, i.e. Smith = Gow, but there is a Smith tartan in any case. Sportkilt sell Smith kilts. I must admit the title confuses me, as the original post is all about Harbison, not Smith.
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20th March 09, 08:26 AM
#49
The original title was a poorly worded metaphor on my part... Smith is such a common name in parts of the U.S. that it's impossible to decipher who is related to whom. From the research I'd been able to do prior to starting this thread, it seems that Harbison and its variants may be similar in that respect in Scotland.
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20th March 09, 09:45 AM
#50
 Originally Posted by The Wizard of BC
<snip>
The Highland Clan system that everyone romances about was effectively dead a couple of hundred years before the Kilt as we know it, and named Tartans, were invented. So it's a moot point really.
In the days when the Clan system was active Named Tartans did not exist. If you wanted to show membership in a Clan you wore the Plant Badge of the Clan.
If your genealogical research can trace your family back to a specific region of the Scottish Highlands then perhaps you can feel some connection to the Clan from that region. But to think that that Clan must be found and that only that Clan is the right one I'm afraid is just not correct.
<snip>
I think the consensus is in fact that there's a couple of hundred years overlap between the Scottish clan system and kilts. Tartan in fact goes back thousands of years, so tartan certainly existed, but mostly with no significance to the pattern or 'sett'.
However, it's true that Scottish clans were primarily identified by their plant badge (sprig of vegetation worn in the hat) in their heyday. Nevertheless, maybe a dozen clans did actually have a clan tartan at that time, and maybe half of those wore the same one they do today, but in general most clan tartans are later inventions, some of them involving fraud, some chosen by the woollen mills, and most merely an afterthought long after the ordinary members of the clan were dispossesed from the clan land.
As to tracing your family name back to a particular region of Scotland, I would say that was necessary but not sufficient, unless you merely want to prove that you are entitled to wear the district tartan of that region. You would also have to find your name on a 'sept' list of families that belong to the clan but have a different surname.
Many lowland Scots names are English names, because, frankly, there is no ethnic difference between the lowlanders and the English (ducks to avoid flames!). Borders don't always fall in the place where ethnicity changes. The highlanders, OTOH, are ethnically very different. That's talking in generalities, of course, not about individuals or specific families, and ignoring that most people have a mixed heritage even in the 'old world'.
You will find, however, that many English names are septs of Scottish clans, often of more than one. Hypothetically, for any such name, you may find that some people of that name are a sept of clan A, some are a sept of clan B and the vast majority are a sept of no clan whatsoever, often lacking even the tiniest iota of Scottish ancestry, or even if they do, never having lived in the right region to have been in the right clan.
I have several such names in my own family tree, but have never traced any of them back to Scotland, much less to a region where one of the clans is found on whose sept list they appear. I therefore have to assume that none of my ancestors were a member of a sept of any Scottish clan, and probably were never Scottish atall, even though I can trace myself back to at least half a dozen surnames that appear on sept lists. You would probably find a similar scenario for anyone whose heritage is mostly English, as mine is.
I wear the kilt because I like it, but I take my Irish ancestry quite seriously. I don't want to step on anyone's toes by appropriating their tartan, so I wear Irish National or County Cork tartan, or my plain black kilt. I have ordered a plain green kilt, as would have been worn in Ireland a century ago, and I might get an Irish saffron kilt eventually.
I could also, at rather higher cost, for example, wear the St. George's tartan (to represent England), or the Maryland state tartan, or the Callaghan tartan (yes, Ireland had clans, they may not have had a tartan in ancient times, or in my case more than two years ago, and many still don't, but most Scottish clans didn't wear their current tartan or any specific tartan before the '45 anyway).
If I had ever served in any military unit, their tartan would be fair game too. AFAIK, there are tartans for the US Army, Marine Corps, Navy, Air Force and Coast Guard, as well as for the RAF and the Royal Navy, and of course for the highland regiments.
There are lots of choices, even if you scrupulously avoid any tartan that represents something you don't belong to. The USMC tartan seems a fine choice for the OP.
Last edited by O'Callaghan; 20th March 09 at 09:50 AM.
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