What does "my clan" or "my chief" mean?

[macwilkin]

Even the red Morrison? I would doubt that conclusion.

Pardon me...I should have typed "the concept of clan tartans"...perhaps you could do some research on the red Morrison and tell us about its origins?

T.

[macwilkin]

Well, I've read that here and there too, and I wouldn't know enough to really know.

My point was, perhaps, it could be tolorated when someone calls the Marines a clan and the Leather Neck tartan a clan tartan or "my clan tartan." Same for the XMTS tartan etc; with the understanding, of course, that it is not the same meaning of the term "clan" as Scotus is using.

Also, that the group tartan folk respect that Scotus means by clan tartan, the tartan that the cheif of his clan has declared to be the clan tartan. Most of all, that we avoid statements, as I have seen from time to time, insulting or degrading to a tartan of meaning.

Of course, Ted...remember that Clan Chiefs frequently raised regiments for service, such as the Duke of Atholl, who still maintains Europe's only "private army", the Atholl Highlanders.

T.

[Bugbear]

* Post deleted, off topic. *

[wvpiper]

I didn't want to post this earlier since I have no comment regarding what tartan means to me, but now I see the thread has drifted a little so I will post my thoughts.

I post what I believe to be the truth regarding tartan and it's historical roots,or lack thereof, not b/c I want to bring anyone down, but b/c I want to be all inclusive and let other's know it's OK if you wear a something that doesn't conform to the 'generally accepted belief'

The piping community is full of know it all, narrow minded, oppressive conformers who,in my mind, put a lot of pressure on others. I was so concerned about what tartan I would wear, or frankly whether I should even wear a kilt at all. I wasn't sure if my Scottish ancestors were Highlanders or wore kilts, or were in clans, etc. I don't like pretending to be something that I am not. That's just me.

When I came across Matthew Newsome's articles, and his blog, a tremendous burden was lifted from me. His infectious enthusiasm for the kilt-any kilt- and his education on what is historically accurate, has enabled me to decide I can do pretty much what I please, and can't be wrong. Solid kilts, tweed kilts, 4 yd kilts, 5 yd kilts. I am armed for the inevitable debate about what is 'traditional' or what's 'right'.

Do I completely ignore clan attachments to tartan-no. Does it drive how I think and feel, about what I will wear or what others should wear, no.

To each their own, to thine own self be true.

Slainte

[Mael Coluim]

I belong to three clan societies; MacCallum Malcolm, Donnachaidh and Gordon. With each one I have an ancestor with that name, my surname Malcolm, my mother’s mother a Robertson and my father’s father’ mother a Morris. By belonging to each of them it gives me a sense of who I am; a shared heritage and belonging. I wear the tartan of each and wear other tartans as well. I must confess though when I wear my XMTS tartan kilt I have a sense more of belonging than the others. My interaction (online and up close and personal) is more with this group of online brethren than my own flesh and blood.

[O'Callaghan]

I have often thought how ironic it sometimes is at highland games in the US when some people become so enthused over the titled clan chiefs in attendance (not that most of them aren't swell fellows,) but either don't know or choose not to remember that it was the heavy-handedness and cruelty of the ancestors of some of these same chiefs that caused the ancestors of some present-day clan afficianados to emigrate to the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and elsewhere, in the Clearances and other such oppression. There are reasons why they left Scotland, as well as reasons why Scots government, society, and culture have changed over the centuries.

That's an excellent point. I think what happened is that the ownership of the land changed due to a different system of law being applied. Historically, clans owned the land in common, and elected a chief by tanistry, i.e. a small group of people directly related to the old chief had the right to elect the new chief from amongst themselves. Scottish law is even now based on the Roman civil law system, just as it was before the union with England, and not the English common law system that the English exported to Ireland, amongst other places, but Scottish civil law belonged to the lowlanders and had never been applied in the highlands, until, of course, it was.

It appears that the civil law did not recognise ownership of the land by the clan. When the lowlanders exported their legal system to the highlands, they regarded the chief as owning all the land, treated his title as strictly hereditary, and regarded the members of the clan as mere tenants, instead of as members owning the clan lands in common and merely paying tribute to their chief, thus allowing the chief to evict them if he wanted to do something else with the land. Many used their new-found legal powers to literally replace their clansmen with sheep for greater profit.

[AcuteEnigma]

I have very much enjoyed meeting members of my extended family, "my clan".
I have been able to verify my paper trail back to an ancestor who came to Virginia in 1698 by matching a cousin's DNA with other, rather distant descendents of that same ancestor.

I find it very easy to get along with most of these people. Easier than if they were mere strangers.

"My Chief" means, to me, the wonderful man who leads us and makes a gathering point and party central whenever he comes to the states. He knows all the history and has plans for the future of the clan including a Clan Library. He is even willing to be arbitrator when a major fight breaks out. How cool is that!!!!

[Oldhiker]

My Clan means to me "My Hobby" while my wife will say it is my obssesion. Either way it has helped me learn history as I trace my family. I try to put the events back in the day as how it effected my family, making it more real. We have had many nice vacations around the world based around this hobby and have met many wonderful people.

We all approach life with different levels of interest aka obsession

[Kilted-Keith]

This is an interesting discussion.

I feel it is a wonderful thing to know your family history and have a sense of where you came from. What did your grandfather, great grandfather, great great great great grandmother do and where did they come from.

At Highland games you almost automatically have a sense of family with others that are in your clan.

if you where walking around wearing your Clan's tartan and saw somebody else wearing the same tartan... I would guess you would walk out of way to talk to them. And if they were wearing it because they also belong to that clan (Instead of just wearing it because they liked the colors) you would have some "Family" connection and there would be a good chance that at some time in the past your families most likely lived, fought, and died together.

Are clans and Clan Chiefs "important" depends on what you mean when you ask that question. Just ask the folks in Clan Crawford, their Clan Chief sold his property and died childless in Canada and the Lord Lyon is now involved trying to figure our who if anybody can be chief of the clan