Differences between Tam O'Shanter vs Balmoral

**macwilkin** · 23rd March 09, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by DWFII

Puffer,

I wonder what the significance of the two different types of TOS is?

I get curiouser and curiouser when I look at photos like this...they seem to have a story to tell--but what is it?

Going by US military insignia (I know nothing of UK insignia) they are all non-coms except the fellow middle left front. It is obviously winter and one of the sergeants...extreme left back row...has his gloves tucked up under his epaulets. And the only one wearing gloves that we can see--a corporal (third from the left back row)--has his right hand resting on the shoulder of the officer (?) in front of him. ??

They're all other ranks -- an officer's ToS would have been tailored:

http://www.51hd.co.uk/static/photos/...BU1518_mid.jpg

The photo is from WWII, but it shows the difference between an officer's bonnet and an OR one -- see also Tunes of Glory and look at the scenes involving RSM Riddick and P/M Maclean.

T.

T.

**DWFII** · 23rd March 09, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by cajunscot

They're all other ranks -- an officer's ToS would have been tailored:

http://www.51hd.co.uk/static/photos/...BU1518_mid.jpg

The photo is from WWII, but it shows the difference between an officer's bonnet and an OR one -- see also Tunes of Glory and look at the scenes involving RSM Riddick and P/M Maclean.

T.

T.

Todd,

What rank is the fellow I thought was an officer? I don't see any chevrons on his sleeve and he looks a bit old to be a private.

And if they are all other ranks... what is the significance of the differences in their ToS's? Any?

**puffer** · 23rd March 09, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by DWFII

Todd,

What rank is the fellow I thought was an officer? I don't see any chevrons on his sleeve and he looks a bit old to be a private.

And if they are all other ranks... what is the significance of the differences in their ToS's? Any?

IMHO, you are correct. Not only his age but "continence" Plus look @ his lower sleeves. He seems to be wearing "pips" or "crowns" ( not time in grade as others are ) if so then = officer ??? . Also his "swagger stick" seems to be the "shorter" version of an officer. Yet his "tunic seems to be the same as the OR's

As tio the diff. TOSs ???

Puffer

**Jock Scot** · 24th March 09, 01:25 AM

Originally Posted by puffer

IMHO, you are correct. Not only his age but "continence" Plus look @ his lower sleeves. He seems to be wearing "pips" or "crowns" ( not time in grade as others are ) if so then = officer ??? . Also his "swagger stick" seems to be the "shorter" version of an officer. Yet his "tunic seems to be the same as the OR's

As tio the diff. TOSs ???

Puffer

He is a Company Sergeant Major(CSM).

**Jock Scot** · 24th March 09, 03:25 AM

Originally Posted by cajunscot

They're all other ranks -- an officer's ToS would have been tailored:

http://www.51hd.co.uk/static/photos/...BU1518_mid.jpg

The photo is from WWII, but it shows the difference between an officer's bonnet and an OR one -- see also Tunes of Glory and look at the scenes involving RSM Riddick and P/M Maclean.

T.

T.

Just for your information the Officer in this picture is a General. I can not make out whether he is a Major General, or, a Lieutenant General though.

**English Bloke** · 24th March 09, 04:11 AM

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

Just for your information the Officer in this picture is a General. I can not make out whether he is a Major General, or, a Lieutenant General though.

If the internet is to be believed, he is Major General T.G. Rennie of the 51st Highland Division.

...Operation Totalise

The 51st Division¹s new commander was a familiar face, Major-General T.G. Rennie. He had been with the Division in France and been captured, before escaping and returning to Britain to command a battalion then a brigade of the reformed division. He was later appointed commander of the 3rd Division who he had commanded from the D-Day landings until he was wounded. Now mostly recovered, though is arm was still in a sling, he arrived to take the command of the division...

**macwilkin** · 24th March 09, 05:51 AM

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

Just for your information the Officer in this picture is a General. I can not make out whether he is a Major General, or, a Lieutenant General though.

Major General T. G. Rennie, C.B., D.S.O., M.B.E., to be exact:

http://www.51hd.co.uk/accounts/app_rennie

T.

**macwilkin** · 24th March 09, 05:53 AM

Originally Posted by DWFII

Todd,

What rank is the fellow I thought was an officer? I don't see any chevrons on his sleeve and he looks a bit old to be a private.

And if they are all other ranks... what is the significance of the differences in their ToS's? Any?

Sort of like the infamous black berets of the US Army...my friend Dave, the "top kick" (1st Sgt.) says it's never worn the same way! ;cool:

T.

**puffer** · 24th March 09, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

He is a Company Sergeant Major(CSM).

Thanks JOCK, NO wonder he "looks" like he is in "COMMAND"

Puffer

**Jack Daw** · 24th March 09, 10:01 AM

I'd wear a cap or hat if it were cold enough or sunny/hot enough. But for the most part, I avoid toppers because of the resulting physical infirmity called 'hat-hair', which I find annoying and unattractive for myself. And, when I wear a cap, such as the glengarry for piping, I find that having a thing on top my head as an unnatural occurrence. I tend to take it off or readjust the thing all the time, and the glengarry has no staying power when I bend down to pick up something.