Armigerous Clans

[Sketraw]

A member of an armigerous clan, or a non-armigerous clan, may also possess their own personal arms if granted/registered by a recognized heraldic authority.

True to a degree..normally an armiger who had a Scottish Grant of Arms and gave allegiance to a Chief would be allowed to display his own arms as head of his own particular family branch within the Clan.

If a Clan is Chiefless the Armiger(s) associated with the Clan would be the custodians of the Clan until a new Chief (Commander in some particular cases) could be found genealogical which would meet with the Lord Lyons approval.

If a Chief Could not be found genealogically and there was enough Armigers 8 (this at one time used to include non armigerous Land Owners) they could form a derbfine and propose a candidate to Lord Lyon as Clan Commander and after a period of time he would become Chief.

This would not include Armigers with Foreign Grants or Registrations.

This was Lord Lyon Blairs written view amended from before, however we have no idea what the New Lord Lyon David Sellar's view will be. Hopefully it would be along the same lines or all the work many of us have done over the years following the present criteria will go up in smoke!!

[YoungMan]

I know this is an improbable scenario but humor me. Are any of the Chiefs non-Scots? Could some kind of wacky King Ralph story play out? Would hilarity ensue or would the Lord Lyon take one look at the passport and say "Oh hell no!" Genealogically speaking, it seems that any movement from Scotland would add a lot of water to the ancestral claim.

[Bugbear]

I know this is an improbable scenario but humor me. Are any of the Chiefs non-Scots? Could some kind of wacky King Ralph story play out? Would hilarity ensue or would the Lord Lyon take one look at the passport and say "Oh hell no!" Genealogically speaking, it seems that any movement from Scotland would add a lot of water to the ancestral claim.

Yes, for example, the current chief of the Lamont clan is Australian, and lives there, from what I understand.

[raibeart_dubh]

Yes, for example, the current chief of the Lamont clan is Australian, and lives there, from what I understand.

There are quite a few chiefs that reside in/were born in countries other than Scotland. The chief of Macleod of Lewis is also Australian and I read somwhere that the chief of Clan Murray, the Duke of Atholl, is from South Africa. We have a couple residing here in the U.S. as well.

[gilmore]

I know this is an improbable scenario but humor me. Are any of the Chiefs non-Scots? Could some kind of wacky King Ralph story play out? Would hilarity ensue or would the Lord Lyon take one look at the passport and say "Oh hell no!" Genealogically speaking, it seems that any movement from Scotland would add a lot of water to the ancestral claim.

There would be neither hilarity nor refusal of a chiefdom to a non-Scot. There are quite a few. If you would like to know how many, you can go here http://www.clanchiefs.org/p/chiefs.html and look up their addresses.

The clan system predates even feudalism, and both predate the existence of nation-states as we know them.