The Title of "Master Kiltmaker"

[The Wizard of BC]

I'm not sure if some of the comments following mine were directed at me but I'll answer them anyway.

Please note that I never said that a Master Kiltmaker was a school teacher and nothing else. I never said that a Master Kiltmaker no longer would make Kilts.

I also never made a requirement of the term "Master Kiltmaker" as it applies to the world today.

We no longer live with the Guild system even though there are still guilds.
Today they way of being certified to do something is different and you don't have to apprentice to be an operating Kiltmaker or open a shop or even call your self a Master Kiltmaker.

In fact currently there is no board, organization or school where one can go to earn the title "Master Kiltmaker". Even the Keith School only gives you a piece of paper saying "Traditional Handcraft Kilt Manufacturer".

So, please, read my words and don't read into them. I was simply explaining how things used to be in what I thought was a simple and understandable manner.

And as a side note... Paul Revere was a master silversmith because he did run a school. It was his shop, he took in apprentice craftsman and no matter who actually did the work it carried his name. And he was certified by the Silversmiths Guild to do so.
No, he did not just teach a classroom, sit-down school but those who worked for him were learning their craft from him.
That is what I was trying to get across.

Today you don't go through the whole apprentice, journeyman, master process for each and every trade. For example to become a Master Locksmith you simply have to go to a school that awards that certificate.
Today's system is different.

So, today if someone wishes to buy and rip apart a Utilikilt, buy a machine, some fabric and call themselves a Master Kiltmaker, there is no one to stop them. Remember, there are no such things as Kilt Kops. Just people who get prickley at something someone else says.

[Bugbear]

Oh ok, I understand now. I had whiddled down my post to just that question, but I had tried to ask if it was the students of the Master who were also making the what ever it is in the masters name. I had a difficult time with the wording and cut all that out in an edit.

It answers my question about the guild and whether the master would be the actual person making the item or a student under the master's supervision. Sounds like the practices of some artists and other crafts of today; you don't know for certain that the actual artist who signs the piece was the person who created it or just the person who finnished it up.

I probably missed the point.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

A HA! I found a few tidbits hidden in the "About" section, which you can find at the bottom of the homepage.

(The bolded emphasis is mine)


I'm pretty sure he is saying that he is a MILITARY master kilt maker. Is this a real title in the military, or is he making that up?

According to his website he spent seven years in the cadets, and seven years in the Royal Marines as a bandsman/bugler. No mention of training as a military tailor in the RM...

Looking at his pictures I'd guess his rank is W/1. I didn't notice any medals when he was on parade in his green balmoral, green jumper, and saffron kilt, so presumably his time of service didn't include a tour in NI, Bosnia, Afghanistan, or anywhere in the Middle East. Then again he may have just decided not to wear gongs.

But military service isn't important. What counts is the quality of his kilts, not the price. If his kilts are better than, say, Stewart Christie in Edinburgh, then perhaps the price is justified. But if they aren't the best kilts in the world (and for that money they'd better be) then in six months time he'll be doing something else.

[Rex_Tremende]

Wow. I can't get past those laces on the ghillies to see the kilts.

Rex.

[Bugbear]

Wow. I can't get past those laces on the ghillies to see the kilts.

Rex.

Guess sometimes I'm lucky I can't be distracted by these pictures... Like that blue vest picture I had the other day.

Not that the words don't create their own pictures sometimes, or that I wouldn't mind being distracted by the kilt pictures.

[DWFII]

I've been following this conversation and thought this tidbit might fit in...or not.

In some Trades, all the way back to the middle ages, the term "master" merely meant that the man owned his own shop. Not all guilds required a "Master Piece," although it is a comforting fiction that we all pretty much subscribe to.

[Bugbear]

Well, I keep thinking of the Master Gardener certification, which is, if I remember correctly, through the county extention out here.

Anyway, every time this comes up, it does make me nervous because there are no specific examples given between the differences in the "old traditional" kilts and the "tailored" kilts. Is Barb's book showing the tailored kilt construction, that's what we seem to know here, or is the book about the old traditional ways as learned at the Keith Kilt School? Exactly who is it making these tailored kilts that are so hated by the traditional kilt makers who have been trained in the old ways?

It just puts a bit of doubt in my mind on what I have learned about kilts so far because I can't figure out what is being talked about with these differences.

[Rex_Tremende]

I'm guessing the techniques Master Kiltmakers use are the old traditional ones. I know I've heard/read some distain for "tailored" kilts from kiltmakers trained in the old traditional ways.

Exactly who is it making these tailored kilts that are so hated by the traditional kilt makers who have been trained in the old ways?

It just puts a bit of doubt in my mind on what I have learned about kilts so far because I can't figure out what is being talked about with these differences.

Really! What are you talking about? Could we have some citations please?

Thanks,
Rex.

[pdcorlis]

Is it a full moon?

[Bugbear]

* This post self-destructed. *