Why does a kilt cost what it does? (re-hash for new folks)

[piperdbh]

I wrote a reply to this thread this afternoon, but accidentally deleted it, so I'll give it another try.

I was comparing the price of a kilt to the price of blue jeans. If a man wore the same blue jeans every day, they'd soon wear down to shreds and buttons, (which is the way high school kids like them these days, by the way.) If blue jeans could be bought for $33.33 each (just for the sake of easy math), and a man bought one pair of jeans per year, then in 3 years he'd have spent $100, in 12 years, $400, and all he'd have at the end of those 12 years would be one pair of wearable jeans. Let's say he kept this up for 50 years. He'd have spent $1,666.50, and still have one pair of blue jeans. In my case, I plan to live to 112, which is 80 more years. I'll have spent $2,666.40, and still wind up with one pair of wearable blue jeans. If I spend the same money, I can buy 6 kilts, have a little $ left over, and be able to pass those kilts down to the 6 children my wife once told me she wanted to have. (She's since changed her mind.)
In short, as has been posted in other threads, the upfront cost of a kilt should be seen as an investment. Yes, it's quite a bit for some of us to shell out all at once, but a good kilt is something that will last a lifetime, and probably beyond, unlike other things (like cars and electronics) that we spend big money on, knowing full well that they will break down or become obsolete in just a few years.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

People today are sold on silly little comparatively low labour features such as bright and quirky coloured linings (the rage among City bankers), buttons with holes on the cuff--- a , in general, silly feature that most master tailors would not have bothered with--- and a number of idiosyncracies that are demanded as visible traits to distinguish the one jacket against another.

For those who may not have had experience with bespoke tailoring, lining material is inevitably chosen by the customer-- as far as practical cuff buttons are concerned, I believe this practice to be nearly universal along the 'Row, with the possible exception of Anderson & Sheppard. Many gentlemen tuck their hankie up their sleeve, and an opening cuff makes this much easier to do; it also allows one to show a bit more cuff, something Percy Blakeney, Bart., would have approved of I'm sure. Lining a suit isn't free of labour costs, and cuffs that actually button, as opposed to stitching three or four buttons on a sleeve, costs as much as a decent Jermyn Street shirt.

As far as this being something the "master tailors would not have bothered with" it is exactly this sort of "silly little...feature" that sets the master tailor apart from the suit factories that turn out suits that often only fit where they touch.

Because these features aren't generally available on the suits sold in the men's department of your local department store, those that desire them are willing to pay whatever it costs to have what they want, ie: a quality suit.

[slohairt]

I challenge you to sit with me for the time it takes me to make a kilt and still arrive at this conclusion.

And Alan's final kilt costs were predicated on a kiltmaker getting a 50% wholesale discount on $60/yard tartan. I just received the Lochcarron USA wholesale price list for 2009, and prices have actually gone down this year because the dollar is doing better against the British Pound. Despite that, the _wholesale price_ that I will pay this year per yard of double width 16 oz Lochcarron tartan ranges from $43-$55 depending upon the rarity of the tartan. And that does not include shipping.

So, for a _common_ tartan, my wholesale cost this year for enough tartan for an 8 yard kilt will be more like $190 (not $120), if you include what I pay Lochcarron to send the tartan to me. And most tartans that I make kilts from are actually the $50-55/yard wholesale tartans (the "select" and "rare select' ranges). My wholesale price for the rare select tartans for an 8 yard kilt this year will be on the order of $240-250 wholesale, including shipping.

And don't forget that tartan and labor isn't the whole picture. I have to buy buckles and straps, canvas and lining, basting thread, carpet thread, etc. It doesn't sound like much, but it does add up.

I've always found it a bit strange (and annoying) that the Strome 'Select' and 'Rare Select' categories contain far more tartans than 'Standard'. Many of them I wouldn't even consider rare. It seems to be a bit of an arbitrary distinction. I prefer how the House of Edgar's Old & Rare tartan range are usually odd variations of tartans found in old pattern books.

[Bugbear]

Deleted

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I've always found it a bit strange (and annoying) that the Strome 'Select' and 'Rare Select' categories contain far more tartans than 'Standard'. Many of them I wouldn't even consider rare. It seems to be a bit of an arbitrary distinction. I prefer how the House of Edgar's Old & Rare tartan range are usually odd variations of tartans found in old pattern books.

It's not arbitrary. In this context, "rare" doesn't really mean that the tartan pattern itself is particularly rare or hard to come by. It's all a matter of supply and demand.

If it is a tartan that Lochcarron is sure to get a lot of demand for, like say MacDonald modern, they will wisely produce greater quantities of it at a time, making the cloth less expensive per yard. This is their "standard" Strome pricing.

On the other hand, if it is a tartan they are not likely to get much request for (like Turnbull Hunging ancient), they won't produce as much of it at a go, which makes it somewhat more expensive per yard. This would be either their "rare" or "select" price categories.

Same quality cloth. Just a different economics of scale. Don't think of it as being charged more for certain tartans so much as being given a discount for certain more popular tartans.

Very often it will be a particular variation of a tartan that is priced as "rare," because it is not as popular. For example, Sutherland Hunting modern is standard price, while Sutherland Hunting weathered is "rare."

I, for one, am glad that Lochcarron chooses to offer the range of 16 oz tartans that they do. Most woolen mills offer a larger selection of 13 oz tartans, with a relatively small selection of 16 oz.

[arrogcow]

I have no problem with the cost of construction (and my last USA KILT was either $170 or $175 when I supplied the XMarks Tartan myself, but that also includes cost for straps etc. BTW Really happy with it Rocky, hadn't posted about that yet.)

My question is, what is up with the cost of tartan? You can buy a solid color worsted wool for under $20 per yard (and I've seen it for under $10), you can buy tartan PV for under $20 per yard (and again seen it as low as $7). So why in the hairy heck is tartan wool $60-80 per yard?

Adam

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

So why in the hairy heck is tartan wool $60-80 per yard?

It has to do with the weight of the fabric as much as anything else. Suits aren't generally made from 16 ounce wool, kilts quite often are. A fabric that weighs twice as much per square foot will, inevitably, cost a whole lot more than its lighter weight counterpart. It also has to do with scales of economy (see Matt's posting above). Mills probably run miles more solid (or striped) fabric than they do tartan, hence another reason why wool tartan costs more.

[RockyR]

Mills probably run miles more solid (or striped) fabric than they do tartan, hence another reason why wool tartan costs more.

It has more to do with the SET UP of the machine (getting the colors in the correct number / order) than the ammount of fabric for any 1 solid color. Weaving 60 M of Saffron (solid color) is MUCH easier to set up the threads as they're ALL THE SAME. For Tartans, the set up for each tartan is different.

[Dixiecat]

So why in the hairy heck is tartan wool $60-80 per yard

Dolly died.

[slohairt]

It's not arbitrary. In this context, "rare" doesn't really mean that the tartan pattern itself is particularly rare or hard to come by. It's all a matter of supply and demand.

If it is a tartan that Lochcarron is sure to get a lot of demand for, like say MacDonald modern, they will wisely produce greater quantities of it at a time, making the cloth less expensive per yard. This is their "standard" Strome pricing.

On the other hand, if it is a tartan they are not likely to get much request for (like Turnbull Hunging ancient), they won't produce as much of it at a go, which makes it somewhat more expensive per yard. This would be either their "rare" or "select" price categories.

Same quality cloth. Just a different economics of scale. Don't think of it as being charged more for certain tartans so much as being given a discount for certain more popular tartans.

Very often it will be a particular variation of a tartan that is priced as "rare," because it is not as popular. For example, Sutherland Hunting modern is standard price, while Sutherland Hunting weathered is "rare."

I, for one, am glad that Lochcarron chooses to offer the range of 16 oz tartans that they do. Most woolen mills offer a larger selection of 13 oz tartans, with a relatively small selection of 16 oz.

I agree with much of what you say, Matt, but I tend to think of it as a surcharge as opposed to a discount. Perhaps they should have used different terminology, as 'Standard' implies a median or normal state.

I meant 'arbitrary' in the sense that some mills offer 'Tartan A' as a rare/special tartan, while others offer the same tartan as a 'standard' choice. It's just unfortunate that Strome's 'Standard' category happens to be the smallest.

Yes, it is good that Lochcarron offer a huge selection of 16 oz. No one else really does. Some mills don't offer it at all.