Buttons on a Doublet

[JSFMACLJR]

I first brought up the question about button placement on doublets in the thread with the Northern Meeting drawings, but no one had an answer. I've pondered the question of buttons on doublets before...am I the only person who has noticed that on what we generally call "regulation doublets" and "Prince Charlie coatees" the buttons in former times consisted of 3 (or 4 or 5) buttons on the right side of the jacket along the opening, not the current display of 3 on each side in imitation of a full-dress evening coat ( white tie tail coat)? You can see this clearly by comparing the paintings of Mackenzie and Mackintosh.




One would be hard pressed to find a regulation doublet that does not have the ubiquitous 3 and 3 arrangement, without having to go bespoke.

Comments?

[Bugbear]

That's interesting. I was thinking the button arangement had to do with the jacket being double breasted...

Sinse everyone is used to seeing buttons on both sides, it would probably look strange to most people.

[JSFMACLJR]

That's interesting. I was thinking the button arangement had to do with the jacket being double breasted...

Sinse everyone is used to seeing buttons on both sides, it would probably look strange to most people.

Those jackets, though, aren't double breasted.

[Bugbear]

Oh, sorry, I thought the PC was.

Never mind.

[JSFMACLJR]

When I say that a coat is double breasted, I envision a coat in which the left front side is folded over the right side and is then buttoned with the buttons on the right side. Is that would you mean, Ted?

A Prince Charlie coatee and a regulation style doublet do not overlap.

[Bugbear]

When I say that a coat is double breasted, I envision a coat in which the left front side is folded over the right side and is then buttoned with the buttons on the right side. Is that would you mean, Ted?

A Prince Charlie coatee and a regulation style doublet do not overlap.

My understanding was that double brested jackets are cut to flare open at the chest while fitting tightly around the waist, like on a mess jacket. Also, that many jackets do achieve this by having the overlapping front closure.

I think someone who knows more about the Highland jackets would need to answer the question because I don't know anything for sure beyond what I have read.

* I did read, after doing a search, that Prince Charlies and regulation doublets are double breasted, but that was in Wikipedia... which is not a good source to cite. *

[Monkey@Arms]

I have different question. Why are there buttons on the tail of PCs?

Best regards,

Jake

[Bugbear]

I have different question. Why are there buttons on the tail of PCs?

Best regards,

Jake...

I can't say for sure, Monkey@Arms, but the discription of a PC sounds very much like the description of a tailcoat or dresscoat with the tails cut back, as has been pointed out. A tailcoat has those buttons back there, and I think at one time they were funtional in some way. I'm guessing when the PC was designed, they put them back there because the tailcoat has them back there.

Yipes! Why am I answering this question.

[Chas]

Hello All,

Two thoughts come into my head. Firstly, JSFMACLJR, when were the Northern Meeting pictures originally painted. They are obviously the same artist, and also obviously not all painted from life on the date in question - so where did the artist get the original from? Or are we discussing a possible 'artistic impression' and not fact?

The second thing is the buttons on the 'tails' of a coatee. They were originally designed to button the tails back and out of the way while horse-riding. Some 'hunting pink' (think red) riding jackets still are made in this way. It is supposedly to do with having a good 'seat' on the horse and not sliding around on extra layers of cloth.

Getting back to point one. I wonder how much of traditional dress as we know it today, was originally dress eccentricity by a few (or maybe just one) influential people. After all, true mass production of clothing would take a hundred years from the time of the first picture.

Regards

Chas

[JSFMACLJR]

Hello All,

Two thoughts come into my head. Firstly, JSFMACLJR, when were the Northern Meeting pictures originally painted. They are obviously the same artist, and also obviously not all painted from life on the date in question - so where did the artist get the original from? Or are we discussing a possible 'artistic impression' and not fact?

The second thing is the buttons on the 'tails' of a coatee. They were originally designed to button the tails back and out of the way while horse-riding. Some 'hunting pink' (think red) riding jackets still are made in this way. It is supposedly to do with having a good 'seat' on the horse and not sliding around on extra layers of cloth.

Getting back to point one. I wonder how much of traditional dress as we know it today, was originally dress eccentricity by a few (or maybe just one) influential people. After all, true mass production of clothing would take a hundred years from the time of the first picture.

Regards

Chas

I'm not sure when the drawings were made. I don't doubt their authenticity, though, as I can show you photographs which indicate the same button placement.

You are right to wonder about "dress eccentricity." Of course a gentlemen went to his tailor with specific thoughts. My evening waistcoats, for example, have four buttons, instead of the more commonly seen three. I personally find the 3 x 3 button placement not my favourite: that is why I asked my tailor to make this doublet up with buttons on one side, as was the standard for the "regulation style doublets" some time back. I can see the case for the 3 x 3 button placement on the PC, as it is a coat modelled after the full-dress tailcoat, but other than for the desire for more "bling" I don't quite know why the "regulation" copies this pattern nowadays.