Waistcoats

**ixoyedeg** · 23rd April 09, 07:22 AM

Hey everyone,

Are there any differences between waistcoats built for a kilt and those used with modern suits, especially in their length? I am really not very knowledgeable about such things and am considering getting some of my extra tartan made into a waistcoat. I am unfamiliar with possible differences in styles of waistcoats, so any information any of you may have would be greatly appreciated.

**JSFMACLJR** · 23rd April 09, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by ixoyedeg

Hey everyone,

Are there any differences between waistcoats built for a kilt and those used with modern suits, especially in their length? I am really not very knowledgeable about such things and am considering getting some of my extra tartan made into a waistcoat. I am unfamiliar with possible differences in styles of waistcoats, so any information any of you may have would be greatly appreciated.

Hello David,

Yes, there are some differences. A waistcoat to be worn with the kilt is usually shorter than one worn with a suit, due to the higher rise of the kilt. Often-times the kilt waistcoat is cut wider at the bottom to better accomodate a sporran (many gentlemen prefer a flat bottomed waistcoat for that very reason).

As you are interested in a tartan waistcoat, might I recommend that it be made up on the bias (diagonal, as it were)? This makes for a very beautiful--and traditional--vestment! Is this an evening waistcoat? If it is, you most likely will want one with three or four buttons; daywear waistcoats five or six.

Regards,
Sandford MacLean

**Bugbear** · 23rd April 09, 11:22 AM

JSFMACLJR brings up three button and four button evening waistcoats. The difference was pointed out to me not too long ago. The four button, evening waistcoats tend to have a "U" shaped neck line that is slightly higher than the "V" shaped neck line that is often on the three button waistcoats.

If you are thinking of a daywear waistcoat to go with an Argyle type jacket, then a regular, five button waistcoat pattern could be modified to work with a kilt. Basically, the hem is raised about an inch and a half, and the angled cutaway edges are raised a bit which makes the cutaway a little wider. I've taken a couple of regular waistcoats and modified them this way.

I think there is a daywear waistcoat style that has a higher neckline than the typical five button waistcoat, but I don't know a lot about that.

**Nick** · 24th April 09, 04:00 AM

Waistcoats meant to wear with a suit will generally not work well with a kilt, I've found. Modern waistcoats are too long all the way around. Those made to go with suits from the early 20th century (say, 1920s-1940s) are the correct length in the back because of the high trousers worn then, but they usually (not always) have a long, curved 'swallowtail' in the front, which gets in the way of the sporran. Kilt waistcoats for daywear usually combine these two, vintage length and a modern, cropped front.

**ixoyedeg** · 25th April 09, 07:56 AM

Thanks everyone for the replies. I was hoping it might be a more versatile accoutrement which could be used both ways, but alas...

Thank you all for the information it is helpful to figuring out what I need.

**MacMillan of Rathdown** · 25th April 09, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by ixoyedeg

Thanks everyone for the replies. I was hoping it might be a more versatile accoutrement which could be used both ways, but alas...

Thank you all for the information it is helpful to figuring out what I need.

Actually, for most men, an ordinary suit waistcoat works fine-- here's the trick: If you are (say) a 44 Regular, get a 44 Short waistcoat. Likewise, if you are a 44 Long, look for a 44 Regular. If you are a 44 Short, then you need a 44 Cadet. Admittedly the short guys have a rougher time of it but, if you are "Mr. Average", it's not impossible to get a suit waistcoat that works with a kilt.

**Bugbear** · 25th April 09, 12:16 PM

I see where you're going with that. I have a gray waistcoat that I can turn up the bottum an inch and a half or so all the way around, and it would work fine with a kilt. Put a safetypin on either side and it's good to go. It just happens to be the right shape and length to do that. I need the waistcoat more for my suits, so I can't hem it.

That is a five button waistcoat; I don't know about the evening waistcoats.

**gilmore** · 25th April 09, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by MacMillan of Rathdown

Actually, for most men, an ordinary suit waistcoat works fine-- here's the trick: If you are (say) a 44 Regular, get a 44 Short waistcoat. Likewise, if you are a 44 Long, look for a 44 Regular. If you are a 44 Short, then you need a 44 Cadet. Admittedly the short guys have a rougher time of it but, if you are "Mr. Average", it's not impossible to get a suit waistcoat that works with a kilt.

Thanks for the very sensible tip.

**DWFII** · 25th April 09, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by Ted Crocker

I see where you're going with that. I have a gray waistcoat that I can turn up the bottum an inch and a half or so all the way around, and it would work fine with a kilt. Put a safetypin on either side and it's good to go. It just happens to be the right shape and length to do that. I need the waistcoat more for my suits, so I can't hem it.

That is a five button waistcoat; I don't know about the evening waistcoats.

Back in the day...Victorian or Edwardian days...men wore their trousers much higher on the torso, very much at roughly the same level as a kilt is supposed to be worn (think military trews, if nothing else). Waistcoats were shorter by comparison to what is worn today and were often cut straight across--no points on the bottom.

For me that provides a rough guide for waistcoats with kilts. Not the only guide or the only look but one that is perfectly in sync with wearing a kilt and a sporran.

My suggestion would be to try turning up the points of your contemporary vest to create a straight bottom and see how that looks rather than trying to turn it up all the way around.

BTW, five button waistcoats with straight bottoms (and high gorge notched-lapels are readily available, in many different fabrics and colours. And almost always of higher quality construction than the one that came with your suit--which is always sort of an afterthought.

**Bugbear** · 25th April 09, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by DWFII

Back in the day...Victorian or Edwardian days...men wore their trousers much higher on the torso, very much at roughly the same level as a kilt is supposed to be worn (think military trews, if nothing else). Waistcoats were shorter by comparison to what is worn today and were often cut straight across--no points on the bottom.

For me that provides a rough guide for waistcoats with kilts. Not the only guide or the only look but one that is perfectly in sync with wearing a kilt and a sporran.

My suggestion would be to try turning up the points of your contemporary vest to create a straight bottom and see how that looks rather than trying to turn it up all the way around.

BTW, five button waistcoats with straight bottoms (and high gorge notched-lapels are readily available, in many different fabrics and colours. And almost always of higher quality construction than the one that came with your suit--which is always sort of an afterthought.

Yes, that works well to turn the points up on some waistcoats.

I was trying to ask about some of the other neck line styles of waistcoats in a thread, but there's not much excitement over there.

I've also seen waistcoats, in old pictures, that have high neck lines, but do not have the notched-lapels. I don't recall that they were being worn with kilts, though.

From where are the waistcoats readily available, DWFII?