A Modern Scottish View of Clans (and Gathering)

[DWFII]

And to think, it took only four generations and some 200 years, as opposed to, say, some other countries where the bi-racial son of a deserted single mother---also from a remote island off the country's western coast--- became president before he was 50 years old.

No. it took 300 odd years. How many generations is that?

It also should be noted that our fine "meritocracy" here in the USA is based on avarice and ruthlessness more than actual accomplishment or talent. If you are more ruthless than your peers, you'll do well in this society. How is that significantly different than clan or feudal societies? Our avarice is based on transportable wealth whereas theirs was land based, that's all I can see.

This is not to say that people with real talent and real energy won't do well, but they will generally do well in any society. It is worth noting that the freedoms and the opportunities that any society offers it members are generally the result of years, generations, even centuries of evolution and change. That evolution in the UK begat the system we have in the US, just as it begat the system that is now extant in Britain. The worth of a people and the society they live in needs to be judged on how far they've come, how inevitably change has prevailed, not where they were six hundred, three hundred or even fifty years ago.

61 posts in 37 hours, and many of them bitter about how unfair it is to not be a member of the lucky sperm club, and how this is somehow tied into accidents of birth, etc. This almost sounds like the basis of the next Dan Brown conspiracy book-- Angles and Crofters, maybe? Or would it be The Karl Marx Code?

It has been my observation that people with talent, who apply themselves, inevitably do well. Those who sit on the sidelines of life and piss and moan about how unfair things are usually accomplish little, regardless of their self-styled "social status" or third level (and often second rate) academic attainments .

MOR hit the nail on the head (especially the "bitter" part). And it is a theme that has run through both this thread and the one previous that got "capped" because it "went on for 18 pages"--a fate most "serious" discussions, sadly, seem to suffer.

[Phil]

"A Modern Scottish View of Clans (and Gathering)" was the original title of this post. Sadly no other actual Scottish people seem able or willing to contribute so I will bow out now before the inevitable tide of opprobrium descends upon me. If anyone feels that this has been a one-sided discussion then that is probably because that is precisely the case.

[gilmore]

"A Modern Scottish View of Clans (and Gathering)" was the original title of this post. Sadly no other actual Scottish people seem able or willing to contribute so I will bow out now before the inevitable tide of opprobrium descends upon me. If anyone feels that this has been a one-sided discussion then that is probably because that is precisely the case.

I am sorry to hear that. I find your comments interesting and informative.

Maybe other Scots aren't contributing to the discussion because it seems few know of the Gathering. According to one of the members who lives in the Highlands a few weeks ago, he was the only person among his aquaintances who was aware of it.

[Brandane]

"A Modern Scottish View of Clans (and Gathering)" was the original title of this post. Sadly no other actual Scottish people seem able or willing to contribute so I will bow out now before the inevitable tide of opprobrium descends upon me. If anyone feels that this has been a one-sided discussion then that is probably because that is precisely the case.

Phil, your thread has certainly sparked all sorts of controversay.

I would just like to say the I am happy and proud to be a Scot and accept that our history is clouded by romantisism. I am also happy to be an Anderson and wear the tartan and the clan badge in honour of those that went before me.

As i've become older I more readily accept the views of others that may disagree with me on subjects such as those that you have raised. History is history however viewed, we have the chance to shape the future. Best wishes, Rob.

[Phil]

Thanks for your comments, peacekeeper83, Rob and others. Don't worry though, it is only this thread I think it best to bow out of. I love a good discussion with the best of them - must be the Irish in me! Would argue a black crow was white my mother used to say.

[BEEDEE]

"A Modern Scottish View of Clans (and Gathering)" was the original title of this post. Sadly no other actual Scottish people seem able or willing to contribute...

Phil, thank you for an attempt to bring this back on topic.

This has moved well away from the original topic and is beginning to move to an "I Said, You said" disagreement that is not really in the best interests of the forum.

A gentle reminder to all: Stay on topic, and be courteous to all members.

Thanks,

Brian