A Definition of the Term, T R A D I T I O N A L

[DWFII]

I don't think it is productive to define "traditional" in a singular way...meaning we have to start with some definiton that we can all agree on. Again, the Oxford English Dictionary seems a standard to me.

And I would call attention to the phrase that defines "traditional" as being passed from one generation to the next. In that context, there is no chronological cut-off point. No arbitrary time frame when a style or implementation passes into historical obscurity. Only historical obscurity itself can impose that limit.

I, for one, will always regard the four yard box pleated kilt as traditional highland attire. I will always see the square bottomed notched lapel vest as traditional. And I'll add the TOS and the 18th century style buckle shoes, as well.

I believe that, given the evidence, even the flat cap could be included but I won't advocate for it.

[MacKay71]

Thank you all for all the good info. I am learning a great deal here.

[BoldHighlander]

Excellent discussion gentlemen!

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I think another thing to consider when we are discussing "traditional" vs. "historical" is the overall outfit.

As Rathdown stated, a four yard box pleated kilt worn with a Crimean War jacket is "historical" as it becomes part of a recreation of an historic outfit. The same kilt worn with a Prince Charlie jacket is "traditional" because it is part of a contemporary evening wear ensemble.

For another example, consider this sporran:

This is an eighteenth century sporran (the cantle is, no doubt the leather has been replaced at some point). As such, it is an historical piece of Highland wear.

This is the outfit it is being worn with, however:

(Sir Malcolm MacGregor, chief of the clan, with his wife Lady Fiona MacGregor, at the Stone Mountain Highland Games last year). This is not an historical outfit. Sir Malcolm is not participating in a reenactment. He is dressed in contemporary daywear. His sporran is simply part of the overall outfit, and is being worn in a "traditional" fashion.

Many of the sporrans I own are modelled after historic styles. I frequently wear four yard box pleated kilts made in an historic style of pleating. I have a Victorian-era style waistcoat I frequently wear for formal wear. I've also worn a nineteenth century replica shirt, collar, and cravat for formal functions. Yet I wear each of these things as part of contemporary Highland dress daywear or eveningwear, with no attempt at historical reenactment. In other words, I am not trying to recreate the look of a particular era with these clothing items. Rather, I am bringing these older styles up-to-date by wearing them with contemporary dress.

Highland fashion allows for a lot of historical "throw backs" in your style. But it's the outfit as a whole, in my opinion, that determines whether you are dressing historically or traditionally.

[dfmacliam]

If you forgive my injecture... But as I see it, it's like a business suit. Worn traditionally as a white collar business attire.. Over time the suit has changed, but it remains basically a suit. You have a single breast or a double breast, both traditional in the sense, yet different. You find suits on the market today, where they have a modern touch to them, and they may not be appropriate to the traditional business attire, but yet, it is a suit. There are no set rules written down, how one wears a suit, but there is a traditionally accepted style. One can wear it dressed up or down.
Suits are worn by peoples of all classes, and to their position/ or wealth is evident in the manner of uhh quality/ accessories. My mother talks about my grandfather going to the tailor to get his suits made, he was a blue collar man, so he would not dress as those of a white collar status, yet he wore a suit in the traditional manner.

The kilt is exactly the same thing, as Jock has pointed out, numerous times, it's an attire, to be worn as the situation dictates, by the blue collar, and white collar crowds alike. It has changed a bit over the years, but it's manner of dress is somewhat timeless.

My opinion, but that is how I see it.

[DWFII]

In other words, I am not trying to recreate the look of a particular era with these clothing items. Rather, I am bringing these older styles up-to-date by wearing them with contemporary dress.

Highland fashion allows for a lot of historical "throw backs" in your style. But it's the outfit as a whole, in my opinion, that determines whether you are dressing historically or traditionally.

Matt,

I thought this was very cogent. Not surprisingly, I agree entirely.Thinking about it, this approach leaves a considerable amount of leeway for individual looks and eccentricities, without straying so far from Tradition as to distort the whole concept of Traditional Highland Attire.

For example, I like my P-39 battledress blouse and TOS, particularly in cool weather, although some may consider it dated.

Similarly with a flatcap (not advocating...just saying) particularly the older styles that were fairly soft and made of tweed. They look a little like a Tam pulled well forward.

[Phil]

(Sir Malcolm MacGregor, chief of the clan, with his wife Lady Fiona MacGregor, at the Stone Mountain Highland Games last year).

I really like this look - Lady MacGregor's I mean. Apart from being a bit of a beauty how good to see her in tartan with her jacket and hat trimming. An idea for the ladies perhaps to keep upsides with the men.

[Dr Mac]

Considering myself a traditionalist, I'm very encouraged to see this "room" of the forum set up for this focus.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I really like this look - Lady MacGregor's I mean. Apart from being a bit of a beauty how good to see her in tartan with her jacket and hat trimming. An idea for the ladies perhaps to keep upsides with the men.

Couldn't agree more. I've never understood why a woman wouldn't want to do her best to look elegant. I am often appalled at games when I see women who have gone to great lengths to look like medieval scullery maids, when for the same effort they could have captured the elegance of an Edwardian lady... (sigh)...

[Friday]

Couldn't agree more. I've never understood why a woman wouldn't want to do her best to look elegant. I am often appalled at games when I see women who have gone to great lengths to look like medieval scullery maids, when for the same effort they could have captured the elegance of an Edwardian lady... (sigh)...

I would conjecture that these woman may be required by profession or position to be elegant during the week and they may want to be a little racy on the weekend.

If everyone were all Lords or Ladies who would fetch the Food and drinks?

Different strokes different folks.