Imitation, sincerest form of flattery?

[sathor]

... If they purport to be a member of the nobility or some other similar type of hanger-on as a means ...

I did a family tree that suggested my Scottish roots go back to the brother of the one famous de Gordon. Is it reliable? Who knows. I have come to terms as always being known as the 'Grandson of the Banker' because of what my grandfather did with his life. It does make things rather interesting.

[Bugbear]

I will at least consider and try to understand you all's (Scots) point of view and feelings on this.

Nothing much I can do about others.

[Heming]

even though we are not Norwegian, Norwegian culture can still be found in my mother's hatred of Lutefisk (she had to dip it out of the barrels at the store where she worked at Christmas) and my grandmother's limited Norwegian vocabulary (uff da!)

I found the word "Norwegian" here, and couldn't resist:

The "Norwegians" of the US are very often the butt of quite nasty jokes here in "the old country". They're mostly seen as ill-informed (or stupid) pretenders trying to be what they're not and preserve what's never been. One example is serving (Swedish) meatballs with (Norwegian) lefse, another saying things like "uff da" in all the wrong contexts. At least both lefse and "uff da" were and are still common here, too. Sorry to drop this on you, but we laugh at you, and we don't mean well.

But here's my personal take:

Being proud of your heritage is a good thing, and trying to preserve ancient custom is honorable. Just please, please try to do some real research and don't trust the Internet or your local heritage society if they don't give you some background sources. And I've never understood why the roots search, almost always ending up with you being the great-great...grandson of a duke or king, still makes you want to eat peasant food (lutefisk, meatballs, haggis, lefse), wearing rich men's clothing. It's a strange mix ... Maybe it's because the simple food is often the best

That said, I think x-marks is a very good place for those trying to do exactly what I suggest above! Keep up the good work!

[macwilkin]

I found the word "Norwegian" here, and couldn't resist:

The "Norwegians" of the US are very often the butt of quite nasty jokes here in "the old country". They're mostly seen as ill-informed (or stupid) pretenders trying to be what they're not and preserve what's never been. One example is serving (Swedish) meatballs with (Norwegian) lefse, another saying things like "uff da" in all the wrong contexts. At least both lefse and "uff da" were and are still common here, too. Sorry to drop this on you, but we laugh at you, and we don't mean well.

But here's my personal take:

Being proud of your heritage is a good thing, and trying to preserve ancient custom is honorable. Just please, please try to do some real research and don't trust the Internet or your local heritage society if they don't give you some background sources. And I've never understood why the roots search, almost always ending up with you being the great-great...grandson of a duke or king, still makes you want to eat peasant food (lutefisk, meatballs, haggis, lefse), wearing rich men's clothing. It's a strange mix ... Maybe it's because the simple food is often the best

That said, I think x-marks is a very good place for those trying to do exactly what I suggest above! Keep up the good work!

You're not laughing at me, because I'm not of Norwegian heritage. As I explained earlier, my ancestors only lived among the Scandinavians of Northern Iowa.

And while you may laugh at them, they are some of the nicest people you'll ever meet, and would no doubt extend a welcome to you if you ever visited. While there are those in any diaspora community who do play up the stereotypes and and don't get the story right, the majority of the Norwegian-Americans I know are hard-working farmers whose families came to America and made a great contribution to our country. They are proud of that fact, as well as their heritage, and no one should laugh at them over that.

So -- you stand invited.

Todd

[Phil]

I found the word "Norwegian" here, and couldn't resist:
The "Norwegians" of the US are very often the butt of quite nasty jokes here in "the old country". They're mostly seen as ill-informed (or stupid) pretenders trying to be what they're not and preserve what's never been.

That is interesting that other nationalities also keep up the customs and traditions of their old countries and that they are the butt of nasty jokes. I cannot say that there is anything like that here about Scots other than perhaps mild amusement at the occasional one dressed in some travesty of highland dress, and that is thankfully very rare. In fact from the photos I have seen here it seems much more common in the States. Your comment about preserving what's never been is, however, much more reminiscent when we see and hear how there is seen to be some connection between Scottish culture and all the panoply that surrounds St. Patrick's day. No harm to them, of course, but it has absolutely nothing to do with Scotland and I wonder if people with names beginning with Mc who had lost touch with their roots mistakenly thought they were actually Irish and behaved accordingly.

[macwilkin]

That is interesting that other nationalities also keep up the customs and traditions of their old countries and that they are the butt of nasty jokes. I cannot say that there is anything like that here about Scots other than perhaps mild amusement at the occasional one dressed in some travesty of highland dress, and that is thankfully very rare. In fact from the photos I have seen here it seems much more common in the States. Your comment about preserving what's never been is, however, much more reminiscent when we see and hear how there is seen to be some connection between Scottish culture and all the panoply that surrounds St. Patrick's day. No harm to them, of course, but it has absolutely nothing to do with Scotland and I wonder if people with names beginning with Mc who had lost touch with their roots mistakenly thought they were actually Irish and behaved accordingly.

Phil,

Your point about St. Patrick's Day is a good one; In my opinion, much of it is do to the Irish-American community's very good "public relations" machine. It is interesting to note how many people in my "neck of the woods" who are of Ulster-Scots heritage claim to be "Irish" and embrace many elements of Southern Irish culture.

Todd

[Phil]

Phil,

Your point about St. Patrick's Day is a good one; In my opinion, much of it is do to the Irish-American community's very good "public relations" machine. It is interesting to note how many people in my "neck of the woods" who are of Ulster-Scots heritage claim to be "Irish" and embrace many elements of Southern Irish culture.

Todd

Interesting you should say that as I know my Ulster relations celebrate St. Patrick so it is not just a southern Irish thing I suppose. I hadn't thought about it that way before but after a couple of hundred years they do think of themselves now as more Irish than Scots and would take that with them when they emigrated.

[Heming]

And while you may laugh at them, they are some of the nicest people you'll ever meet, and would no doubt extend a welcome to you if you ever visited. While there are those in any diaspora community who do play up the stereotypes and and don't get the story right, the majority of the Norwegian-Americans I know are hard-working farmers whose families came to America and made a great contribution to our country. They are proud of that fact, as well as their heritage, and no one should laugh at them over that.

So -- you stand invited.

Todd

Sorry if I seemed in attack mode, I wasn't. And I certainly wasn't trying to get a poke at any single person. I'm sorry I come across as a rude bastard. I was raised in a country where "politically correct" is a 4-letter word and politeness is considered condescending.

I think you're actually very right, my family is from the area of Norway where the great emigration started (Haugalandet), and I can't think of a single childhood friend who doesn't have a "rich uncle in the states" (who isn't necessarily rich, and probably your great grand-uncle or second cousin twice removed, but there you go). I personally don't laugh at anyone, especially not those making a great contribution to their country. I was just making a point of what Norwegians in general think of the roots tourists, wearing horned helmets, who seem a bit confused about which country is their own. Most Norwegians will never admit that a Norwegian diaspora exists. You won't be accepted as Norwegian unless both your parents were born in Norway. If you're rich and famous, you'll be accepted as a friend of Norway (one example being Earle Hyman). I think this all stems from a deep shame of having been so poor and desperate that you chose to desert your homeland.

I am very glad to hear that the Scandinavians you know are open-hearted and welcoming, and ashamed to say that they must have picked this up after arriving in the states. Open hearts and minds are few and far between here (one of the reasons I moved to Edinburgh), and though we are getting better, foreigner's aren't treated very nicely. Oslo being a relieveing exception.

But just to be clear: The above is NOT my own opinion. In fact these attitudes make me sick. I used the word "we" in the widest possible meaning, and I personally salute anyone who has the stamina to dig up their actual history and take an interest in ther actual heritage. I'm not much for the Disney Channel stuff - horned helmets, moose-dropping ear-rings (yes, they exist) and suchlike - but some like it and should by all means go for it. Just realise that's not really your heritage.

I hope to be visiting St. Olaf College next year, as part of a choir bringing Norwegian folk songs to America. And I hope to meet many people of Norwegian heritage there - and hope they prove your point well. I've heard there's a place in Northfield that make great sour cream waffles.

[macwilkin]

Sorry if I seemed in attack mode, I wasn't. And I certainly wasn't trying to get a poke at any single person. I'm sorry I come across as a rude bastard. I was raised in a country where "politically correct" is a 4-letter word and politeness is considered condescending.

I think you're actually very right, my family is from the area of Norway where the great emigration started (Haugalandet), and I can't think of a single childhood friend who doesn't have a "rich uncle in the states" (who isn't necessarily rich, and probably your great grand-uncle or second cousin twice removed, but there you go). I personally don't laugh at anyone, especially not those making a great contribution to their country. I was just making a point of what Norwegians in general think of the roots tourists, wearing horned helmets, who seem a bit confused about which country is their own. Most Norwegians will never admit that a Norwegian diaspora exists. You won't be accepted as Norwegian unless both your parents were born in Norway. If you're rich and famous, you'll be accepted as a friend of Norway (one example being Earle Hyman). I think this all stems from a deep shame of having been so poor and desperate that you chose to desert your homeland.

I am very glad to hear that the Scandinavians you know are open-hearted and welcoming, and ashamed to say that they must have picked this up after arriving in the states. Open hearts and minds are few and far between here (one of the reasons I moved to Edinburgh), and though we are getting better, foreigner's aren't treated very nicely. Oslo being a relieveing exception.

But just to be clear: The above is NOT my own opinion. In fact these attitudes make me sick. I used the word "we" in the widest possible meaning, and I personally salute anyone who has the stamina to dig up their actual history and take an interest in ther actual heritage. I'm not much for the Disney Channel stuff - horned helmets, moose-dropping ear-rings (yes, they exist) and suchlike - but some like it and should by all means go for it. Just realise that's not really your heritage.

I hope to be visiting St. Olaf College next year, as part of a choir bringing Norwegian folk songs to America. And I hope to meet many people of Norwegian heritage there - and hope they prove your point well. I've heard there's a place in Northfield that make great sour cream waffles.

No worries! I have to admit I'm not big on the whole horned-helmet thing myself. I suppose that's the Norwegian version of blue face-paint, a la Braveheart.

And if you do make to the Midwest, hopefully you'll be able to visit the Vesterheim Norwegian-American Museum in Decorah, Iowa:

http://vesterheim.org/index.php

And I can give you directions to a small cafe in Eagle Grove, Iowa, not far from where my family lived, that still offers homade Kumla on their menu. :mrgreen:

Regards,

Todd