Eagle feather thread

[pdcorlis]

Not to sidetrack this conversation but its my understanding that the Migratory Bird Treaty Act also extends coverage to any non-game bird in the US. People can and do possess "exotic" feathers but must have proper documentation.

[ForresterModern]

Not to sidetrack this conversation but its my understanding that the Migratory Bird Treaty Act also extends coverage to any non-game bird in the US. People can and do possess "exotic" feathers but must have proper documentation.

Being one who has tied his share of flies for fishing in the past I do know that there are several particular breeds that are similarly restricted from possesion as are the eagles, which causes one to have to vary his tying materials from some of the original materials, particularly in certain wetflies, salmon and steelhead flies, and saltwater flies. Can't remember any specifics right off the top of my head right now though.

[pdcorlis]

I PROMISE this is my last bit of sidetracking!

As another avid fly tier all I can say is amen! My heart goes out to anyone tying full dress salmon flies. I'll bet most of their materials are substitutes and work-arounds for now extinct and endangered species.

[hospitaller]

As only armigers are "entitled" to wear eagle feathers,

In Scotland, not in the US, anyone can walk with feathers in their caps. No one is entitled or 'authorized to wear them or not in this side of the pond.

I get your meaning though, but the clarification has to be made.

I may or I may not have an eagle feather, which I may or may not wear on occasion, but as an armiger I am perfectly content to be identified by my crest within a plain circlet.

We know

.

[macwilkin]

[FONT="Georgia"]In Scotland, not in the US, anyone can walk with feathers in their caps. No one is entitled or 'authorized to wear them or not in this side of the pond.

Sorry, but I respectfully disagree. A number of US citizens are also armigers and are authorized by heraldic organizations such as the Lyon Court, College of Arms, etc. to bear arms and wear feathers as armigers. They are bona fide and have the credentials to prove it.

And I must point out that being an armiger and being an American citizen are not contradictory -- and if you don't believe me, then perhaps the words of George Washington on the subject would be appropriate:

it is far from my design to intimate an opinion that heraldry, coat-armour, &c., might not be rendered conducive to public and private uses with us; or that they can have any tendency unfriendly to the purest spirit of republicanism.

-- Letter to William Barton, September 1788

More information about Washington's arms may be found here:

http://americanheraldry.org/pages/in...ent.Washington

Regards,

Todd

[dfmacliam]

I can say also... even though Native Americans have "rights" to possess Eagle feathers, they can only do so by possessing the proper paperwork... which is easily obtained... but still required to possess feathers...
I am curious about the provisions of armigers possessing eagle feathers, would they have to be required to obtain the permits, once they prove their status. Or because its a status recognized by a foreign entity, it is a mute point to even apply for said permits?

[Rex_Tremende]

I don't mean to sound stupid, ill-informed, insensitive, or inflammatory but why must eagle feathers be the symbol of status? Is it their rarity? Their restrictions? Some sort of mystic history? If eagle feathers are such a problem, why doesn't someone declare in the name of good conscience to switch to, say, turkey feathers, or pheasant feathers, which are readily available at the floral department of any hobby shop? Tradition requires it, I guess. Honestly, in the photos people have posted, I can't tell the difference between an eagle feather and a goose feather, except I can tell the guy with the big one sticking out of his bonnet is probably Somebody.

I know that I am missing some important point, but I imagine that someone will set me straight here, soon enough.

Regards,
Rex.

[JSFMACLJR]

I don't mean to sound stupid, ill-informed, insensitive, or inflammatory but why must eagle feathers be the symbol of status? Is it their rarity? Their restrictions? Some sort of mystic history? If eagle feathers are such a problem, why doesn't someone declare in the name of good conscience to switch .

Many, many armigers, including my chief, Sir Lachlan Maclean of Duart, have silver crest badges made with silver feathers.

[McMurdo]

This thread was closed down earlier on today, after PM's from various members asking it be reinstated, I have put it back up. Please remember gents to keep this civil, we did close one of these down earlier today.

[hospitaller]

Sorry, but I respectfully disagree. A number of US citizens are also armigers and are authorized by heraldic organizations such as the Lyon Court, College of Arms, etc. to bear arms and wear feathers as armigers. They are bona fide and have the credentials to prove it.

Todd,

it appears we are again at odds on semantics. I am not questioning the entitlement in Scotland for armigers to wear feathers, including eagle feathers. I was questioning the 'entitlement' of armigers to wear eagle feathers in the US. Hence my recognition of Sandford's intent and meaning, but adding the clarification.

And I must point out that being an armiger and being an American citizen are not contradictory -- and if you don't believe me, then perhaps the words of George Washington on the subject would be appropriate:

Agreed, I have been working on my own submission to the LL for over a year now.

.