Interesting email from an Irish fellow about Irish kilts.

[macwilkin]

Ah yes. The Gaelic League. And let's not forget about Lady Gregory and the Celtic Dawn, either. These folks were in a distinct minority at the end of the 19th, beginning of the 20th century, and were generally regarded as cranks and crackpots by most of the Irish. Their espousing the wearing of the kilt had nothing to do with Irish history, and everything to do with wanting to look "Irish". Lacking any sort of distinctive native Irish dress, they borrowed the kilt from the Scots-- they could have as easily dressed in knee britches and buckle shoes-- and created the myth of "ancient celtic dress" right there on the spot.

And let's not forget the Irish regiments of the British Army, that also began to adopt the saffron kilt as dress for pipers right around the time of the First World War.

Regards,

Todd

[Jon1975]

[macwilkin]

Thank you, Jon! I was looking for a graphic of that particular poster, but I couldn't find it. My bonnet's off to you, sir!

T.

[starbkjrus]

Man, this thread just refuses to die.

::dead::

[thanmuwa]

Thank you, Jon! I was looking for a graphic of that particular poster, but I couldn't find it. My bonnet's off to you, sir!

T.

Yes, that is interesting... I presume from WW1?

[BoldHighlander]

I wonder if the individual who wrote the original email moved back or has a relative with similar views?

By way of explanation, the other day I received my semi-annual copy of the "The Ulster-Scot", a publication of the Ulster-Scots Agency and some amadán wrote in the following letter:

ULSTER-SCOTS AND THE KILT

Dear Sir,
While contributors to your paper are at pain to emphasise that Ulster-Scots folk are of non-Gaelic Anglo-Saxon decent, [?!] why do such contributors, and present generation Ulster-Scots in general, here and in the wider colonial diaspora, transvesticise themselves by adopting the 19th century Victorian parody of Gaelic highland dress at Ulster-Scots functions.
Whereas tartan fetishism has become the stylised national dress in Scotland where there is no longer any distinction between Lowlander and Highlander, Scot and Gael, it is incongruous and hypocritical for Ulster-Scots to flaunt it as a symbol to differentiate themselves from the Gaelic, Norse, Norman, English, etc.. etc populations of Ulster and Ireland.
The wearing of formalised highland dress by diaspora Scots should only be valid for those whose ancestors emigrated from Scotland after the date when such dress was invented in the Victorian era.
If today's Ulster-Scots need an identifying form of "national" dress it should be the garb worn by their early 17th century lowland Scots ancestors.

D. Golden, A Scot in Ulster
Strabane

All I can say is "WOW!"
I don't even know where to begin with this one, and I think I'll leave it to others to dissect. However let me say that for the past 4 or 5 years I've been reading this paper, and during that time I have never seen any contributors take pains to emphasise that Ulster-Scots folk are of non-Gaelic Anglo-Saxon decent. Rather I've seen them emphasis both the Lowland & Highland roots of the Ulster-Scots.
As for his thoughts on wearing the kilt....whew!!
I don't understand people sometimes.
Like I said, he's either the first fool, moved back to North Ireland, or fell out of the same tree!!

[O'Callaghan]

I wonder if the individual who wrote the original email moved back or has a relative with similar views?

By way of explanation, the other day I received my semi-annual copy of the "The Ulster-Scot", a publication of the Ulster-Scots Agency and some amadán wrote in the following letter:

ULSTER-SCOTS AND THE KILT

Dear Sir,
While contributors to your paper are at pain to emphasise that Ulster-Scots folk are of non-Gaelic Anglo-Saxon decent, [?!] why do such contributors, and present generation Ulster-Scots in general, here and in the wider colonial diaspora, transvesticise themselves by adopting the 19th century Victorian parody of Gaelic highland dress at Ulster-Scots functions.
Whereas tartan fetishism has become the stylised national dress in Scotland where there is no longer any distinction between Lowlander and Highlander, Scot and Gael, it is incongruous and hypocritical for Ulster-Scots to flaunt it as a symbol to differentiate themselves from the Gaelic, Norse, Norman, English, etc.. etc populations of Ulster and Ireland.
The wearing of formalised highland dress by diaspora Scots should only be valid for those whose ancestors emigrated from Scotland after the date when such dress was invented in the Victorian era.
If today's Ulster-Scots need an identifying form of "national" dress it should be the garb worn by their early 17th century lowland Scots ancestors.

D. Golden, A Scot in Ulster
Strabane

All I can say is "WOW!"
I don't even know where to begin with this one, and I think I'll leave it to others to dissect. However let me say that for the past 4 or 5 years I've been reading this paper, and during that time I have never seen any contributors take pains to emphasise that Ulster-Scots folk are of non-Gaelic Anglo-Saxon decent. Rather I've seen them emphasis both the Lowland & Highland roots of the Ulster-Scots.
As for his thoughts on wearing the kilt....whew!!
I don't understand people sometimes.
Like I said, he's either the first fool, moved back to North Ireland, or fell out of the same tree!!

Lowland Scots are largely Anglo-Saxon, and Ulster Scots (which Americans call Scotch Irish, although more properly that should be Scots Irish) are mostly the descendants of Lowland Scots, hence yes, mostly Anglo-Saxon. Notice I do say mostly, not entirely. It also has to be admitted that the Ulster Scots settled in Northern Ireland before the Lowland Scots adopted the kilt from the Highlanders. All that is true.

That said, if they want to wear tartan kilts to emphasize their Scottish roots, it's churlish to be so pedantic as to say they shouldn't. Only reenactors should have to concern themselves with avoiding anachronisms, nobody else should worry about it.

However, if they are doing it to distinguish themselves from Irish people who aren't Ulster Scots, such as those who are Gaels, then they should consider that the Irish kilt is hardly any more recent than the lowlanders adoption of the kilt. Not five minutes ago in another thread I read a comment that "the Irish never wore kilts". Never is a long time. If you accepted that as true, which I don't, then you would also have to accept that the Lowland Scots never wore kilts. Neither statement is quite true, although the kilt certainly originated in the Highlands, and the wearing of kilts by Lowland Scots and Irish Gaels, let alone Ulster Scots, doesn't go back to time immemorial.

IOW, I don't see why they shouldn't do it, but I don't think it marks the difference that they intend by it, or that they even have a much greater claim to the kilt than the "other side".

[BoldHighlander]

Lowland Scots are largely Anglo-Saxon, and Ulster Scots (which Americans call Scotch Irish, although more properly that should be Scots Irish) are mostly the descendants of Lowland Scots, hence yes, mostly Anglo-Saxon. Notice I do say mostly, not entirely.

As an aside, what I found when researching my family genealogy, is that those who were Ulster-Scots in my linage were mostly Highland Scots. The very few others were English it seems. So far none of Lowland stock (at least that I've been able to trace).

I guess mine are the exception rather than the norm

[gilmore]

Lowland Scots are largely Anglo-Saxon, ...".

As was pointed out earlier in this thread, the Angles and the Saxons contributed relatively little to the British gene pool, much less that was thought formerly, DNA evidence now reveals.

Genetics and culture are two different things. While Lowland Scots might speak (or spoke) a language, Scots, closer to English than to Gaelic, it doesn't follow that they are or were a different people. They were, for the most part, the same people adopting different language and culture, of which dress is a part.

And culture is a harder to pin down, ever shifting thing. Fashions in clothing come, sometimes go, sometimes stay. Thus it is with the kilt.