Which came first? The kilt or the dandy?

[blackbeard]

Recent postings regarding historic kilts got me to thinking. 17th Century noblemen in their kilts were not far from the non-kilted noblemen in their attire.

Notice the Dutch gentleman in black is not wearing a kilt, just the fashion of the day.
1661


The Frenchman in gold is wearing his cloak draped over his left shoulder, much like a fly plaid.
1663


The two differences I see are the tartan and bare knees; not much else.

[JolyStNicholas]

Grand pictures for viewing! I see your point. The dress of the time periods does look a lot alike.

Thanks for posting this info!

[gilmore]

Notice how low the hose in both kilted paintings. And how far above the knee the kilt is in the upper one.

[blackbeard]

Notice how low the hose in both kilted paintings. And how far above the knee the kilt is in the upper one.

I did notice that.
It seems that the 17th Century Scott was not as “afraid” of the male knee as some of us are today.

[Woodsheal]

The upper garments (doublets,waistcoats, coats) of 17th and 18th C. highlanders - especially the clan "gentlemen" - reflected the fashions in vogue in Europe at the time, though these fashions tended to survive longer in the remote Highlands when they were considered outmoded elsewhere.

The only major difference seen is when the highland coats and waistcoats of the 1700's were cut shorter to accommodate the bulk of the belted plaid....

[blackbeard]

This has me thinking about the general transformation of the kilt and how it has taken a somewhat different but parallel path of non-kilted men's fashions. In the 17th century men's clothing was loose and voluminous. The kilts of the same period also had yards of tartan billowing everywhere. Fast forward to the end of the 18th and beginning of the 19th century when the non-kilted gentleman's clothing was much more stream lined and tailored and so were kilts. (I'm leaving the military out of this train of thought.) Fast forward to today and the contemporary kilts take a lot of their style from the grunge and skater look of the general population. Slung low on the hip and hemmed just below the knee.

Just my thoughts.

[Stratherrick]

I agree, I think a kilt is an eminently adaptable item. To me, it's the airy freedom of movement that surpasses all else. What shape or colour you prefer, well, that's just fashion!

Slainte

Bruce

[Colonel MacNeal]

Surely the "dandy" has always been with us. Remember the biblical story of Joseph? His brothers sold him into slavery because his father gave him a fancy coat.