Need advice: run in with Kilt (feather?) Police

[Peter C.]

Actually this is quite offensive. Ugly American indeed!

No, I'm not willingly disrespectful. Actually I'm very respectful of custom. I'm just acknowledging that to me modern kilt wear is a personal thing. To me, kilts are worn as clothes, not as a uniform. I don't go out of my way to pose as anything I'm not nor offend anyone. BUT nobody has a right to correct me in how I dress and I would be very rude to correct anyone else. The gentleman in question no doubt broke no rules or conventions, but was questioned by someone who thought he could put some rules on him. He was not trying to impersonate a clan chief. The other fellow was just trying to be a know it all.

An example...one Sunday at church I was wearing a kilt in pretty formal style...jacket, tie, and lace up wingtips (conventionally wearing a classic sporran, kilt pin, flashes, and all the other dodads) Some moron told me "you know that's not the type of shoes they USED to wear". Well SO... I'm not a reenactor...it's what a modern day kilt wearer choses to wear that given Sunday!
The next time somebody tries to act like the kilt police I will ask them for their badge and id.

Lace up wingtips, simply known as brogues in Scotland, used to be worn by Scottish regiments, and probably still are.

Peter

[caig]

As an armiger I feel able to respond to this thread, albeit a little late.

I do tend to object to people, whether American, Scottish or other, trying to imitate a clan chief or armiger by wearing long feathers in their bonnet, whilst wearing the kilt. I question why a long feather has been chosen as opposed to any other accroutement/decoration. I suggest that it is to imitate a clan chief/armiger. And that does offend me.

Feathers of about 2-3" tall are excluded from my comments here. These are pure decoration and would not be confused with an eagle feather. A tall pheasant feather, for example, would, certainly at a small distance, look like an eagle feather. Certainly in Scotland this would be taken as the badge of an armiger, and one would presume that the wearer was entitled to wear it. This is not the practice in other countries. However, if one is going to wear the Scottish traditional dress some thought and consideration for the protocols of Scotland would be expected. Indeed it would be discourteous not to do so.

I hope this does not sound too strong but I did suggest in another thread started by JockScot (I think) I said that I would no longer sit quietly when things need saying.

[Andrew M. Stewart]

As an armiger I feel able to respond to this thread, albeit a little late.

I do tend to object to people, whether American, Scottish or other, trying to imitate a clan chief or armiger by wearing long feathers in their bonnet, whilst wearing the kilt. I question why a long feather has been chosen as opposed to any other accroutement/decoration. I suggest that it is to imitate a clan chief/armiger. And that does offend me.

Feathers of about 2-3" tall are excluded from my comments here. These are pure decoration and would not be confused with an eagle feather. A tall pheasant feather, for example, would, certainly at a small distance, look like an eagle feather. Certainly in Scotland this would be taken as the badge of an armiger, and one would presume that the wearer was entitled to wear it. This is not the practice in other countries. However, if one is going to wear the Scottish traditional dress some thought and consideration for the protocols of Scotland would be expected. Indeed it would be discourteous not to do so.

I hope this does not sound too strong but I did suggest in another thread started by JockScot (I think) I said that I would no longer sit quietly when things need saying.

Well said!

[JimB]

Now that everyone is on their high horse, was anyone in the story wearing an eagle feather?

OH, and my J.C. Penny's wingtips and brogues do not look alike. Similar yes.

[Cynthia]

Feathers of about 2-3" tall are excluded from my comments here.

The OP's feathers would fall into this category. Thanks for clarifying this. I've been a little nervous he'll come here and panic seeing some of the slightly heated discussion in his thread and wonder if some people might be referring to his feathers.

(normally I wouldn't speak for someone else like this, but I haven't heard from him yet and I wanted to clarify it as well since I know him and have seen the feathers in person -- I realize the conversation has grown past the original thread/posting, but I just wanted to make sure people knew he was not wearing anything resembling a long feather of any sort)

[Jock Scot]

As an armiger I feel able to respond to this thread, albeit a little late.

I do tend to object to people, whether American, Scottish or other, trying to imitate a clan chief or armiger by wearing long feathers in their bonnet, whilst wearing the kilt. I question why a long feather has been chosen as opposed to any other accroutement/decoration. I suggest that it is to imitate a clan chief/armiger. And that does offend me.

Feathers of about 2-3" tall are excluded from my comments here. These are pure decoration and would not be confused with an eagle feather. A tall pheasant feather, for example, would, certainly at a small distance, look like an eagle feather. Certainly in Scotland this would be taken as the badge of an armiger, and one would presume that the wearer was entitled to wear it. This is not the practice in other countries. However, if one is going to wear the Scottish traditional dress some thought and consideration for the protocols of Scotland would be expected. Indeed it would be discourteous not to do so.

I hope this does not sound too strong but I did suggest in another thread started by JockScot (I think) I said that I would no longer sit quietly when things need saying.

You did indeed and thank you.

[macwilkin]

As an armiger I feel able to respond to this thread, albeit a little late.

I do tend to object to people, whether American, Scottish or other, trying to imitate a clan chief or armiger by wearing long feathers in their bonnet, whilst wearing the kilt. I question why a long feather has been chosen as opposed to any other accroutement/decoration. I suggest that it is to imitate a clan chief/armiger. And that does offend me.

Feathers of about 2-3" tall are excluded from my comments here. These are pure decoration and would not be confused with an eagle feather. A tall pheasant feather, for example, would, certainly at a small distance, look like an eagle feather. Certainly in Scotland this would be taken as the badge of an armiger, and one would presume that the wearer was entitled to wear it. This is not the practice in other countries. However, if one is going to wear the Scottish traditional dress some thought and consideration for the protocols of Scotland would be expected. Indeed it would be discourteous not to do so.

I hope this does not sound too strong but I did suggest in another thread started by JockScot (I think) I said that I would no longer sit quietly when things need saying.

Well said. As an American, I value the right of private property, and a coat-of-arms in Scottish heraldic custom belong to an individual, so I have nothing but respect for armigers and their right to their heraldic devices.

Regards,

Todd

[O'Callaghan]

I think there's a risk of conflating two different things. It's quite possible to dress however you want and yet still have enough sense not to wear things that are 'reserved' to someone or other. Of course, there is no law concerning the feathers in your hat, but if you wear something that looks like you are pretending to be a chief or WHY, then it is not only discourteous, but it makes you look like a fool.

OTOH, it was established early on in the thread that the OP's feathers were too short to be taken for the chief's feathers by anyone who really knew what they were talking about, and yet the thread still goes on.

I suppose I am saying that I see no real need to look like a facsimile of a highlander, but at the same time I wouldn't even wear someone else's tartan, personally speaking, let alone adopt any more specific symbols that would indicate I'm someone that I'm not. Of course, some would say that wearing the kilt is trying to look like a highlander, but so many others have done so in the last 200 years that I would never go that far.