got a tattoo?

[Paul]

I'm not an expert, but I have read quite a bit about heraldry. From what I've read, the 'crest' is technically the device above the shield and helmet - in your case, nh_mclean, the tower - with the wreath (a roll of cloth on top of the helmet, which is missing in nh_mclean's case). The 'coat of arms' is the entire picture (officially called an 'Achievement', per Lord Lyon's website) - the crest, the wreath, the helmet, the shield, any supporters (figures to the sides of the shield), decorations, and the ribbon with the motto. With Scottish clansmen, the crest (and wreath) goes inside the 'strap-and-buckle' to signify their allegiance to the clan/clan chief (with the motto on the strap).

That leads me to ask, Paul., which were you planning on getting, the crest or the coat of arms? In Scotland, you should remember, the coat of arms belongs to an indivual (an armiger), not a family. The crest thus also belongs to the armiger, and putting the crest (with strap-and-buckle, a la the crest badge) or coat of arms on any object (including yourself, I would suppose) would mean that that object belongs to the armiger. If prosecuted for it, wearing/using (usurping) someone else's coat of arms/crest is punishable by a fine and confiscation of the item(s) bearing the arms - in your case, wherever you have the tattoo placed. Yikes!

Not to put down your enthusiasm for getting a tat. Perhaps your famiily name and/or something personally symbolic would be better?

Hi EagleJCS. It's the crest I'm getting - but within a heart.
Ive also taken the Irish crown out of the crest and placed it ontop for a design feature at centre-top. So doesnt that mean technically it's not the crest - therefore I'm not stealing it?

[dfmacliam]

I have 12 myself.... My chest is covered, as well as my upper arms/shoulders. One one the upper center portion of the back, one one the hand, one on the forearm, and one on my calf.
Pain? Not reall, though the back piece got uncomfortable when it was on the spine..

Regrets? Maybe the forearm and hand... It's easier to keep them hidden under a shirt, even a short sleeve..and since I work out in the sun, tats are better off out of the sun..

I would also advise against getting tats that have a lot of detail, because as time goes by, tats tend to thicken(lines) and fine work tends to blur... My daughter got a graffiti piece on her back.. You can no long distinguish what it reads..

I plan on getting some more work done soon, but I am working with my artist, making sure the design is as exactly as I want.... It will be an Irish themed piece with a Harp made with the Angel, as well as a few other Irish icons..

As for the clan badge/ crest... I would avoid the direct copy of the arms, and make a design of your own making...

[St. Amish]

Tattoos are stupid.

I have eight.

If you psych yourself up for the pain, you'll probably end up snoring in the chair. Do eat something about twenty minutes before you go in, and then immediately before. Do remember to breathe. If you don't breathe regularly, or didn't get your blood sugar up high enough, it's lights out. I can't tell you how many tough guys I've seen take a nap in the chair. My tattoo artist charges $50 extra if you pass out, $50 if you vomit, and $100 if you do both.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

The traditional "clansman's badge", ie: the buckle and strap with motto around the crest of the chief is 100% okay for a tattoo as it serves the same purpose as a "clansman's badge" pinned to the side of a bonnet-- allegiance to your chief as the head of your clan. Any other heraldic tattoo brands you as the property of the owner of that heraldic devise, or as someone displaying "bogus" heraldry.

The rule that is applied here is that of blazon. If it can be blazoned (that is, described in precise heraldic terms) then it is heraldry. If it can't be blazoned, then it isn't heraldry.

So, what is the status of putting the crest on a heart and then setting an "Irish" crown on the heart? Lets see... the "heart" becomes a sheild and the "crest" becomes a charge,while the "crown" takes the place of a crest:

Blazon: Gules (red) a heart thereon a tower argent (white, silver, or grey) masoned sable (black), the whole surmounted by an antique crown (the proper name for the "Irish" crown) or (gold).

Without bothering to rush to my resources, I'd bet someone already owns a red shield with a tower on it as their coat of arms. Now would a herald have kittens if he saw your tattoo? Probably not, as it would be obvious that there was no intent to usurp the heraldic property of another person in adopting what is, after all, personal body ornamentation. However, if the tower was on a ordinary shaped shield, he most definitely would arch an eyebrow in disapproval.

My advice to anyone contemplating an heraldic tattoo would be to stick to the buckle and strap devise of a clansman, and avoid using any "shield of arms".

Do I have a tattoo? No. Why? Because I have seen far too many second rate jobs. If the ink-slinger does a crappy job -- for what ever reason -- you are stuck with a bad tattoo pretty much for the rest of your life. To my mind that's Pascal's wager, and I don't think I'll take it up.

[Paul]

The traditional "clansman's badge", ie: the buckle and strap with motto around the crest of the chief is 100% okay for a tattoo as it serves the same purpose as a "clansman's badge" pinned to the side of a bonnet-- allegiance to your chief as the head of your clan. Any other heraldic tattoo brands you as the property of the owner of that heraldic devise, or as someone displaying "bogus" heraldry.

The rule that is applied here is that of blazon. If it can be blazoned (that is, described in precise heraldic terms) then it is heraldry. If it can't be blazoned, then it isn't heraldry.

So, what is the status of putting the crest on a heart and then setting an "Irish" crown on the heart? Lets see... the "heart" becomes a sheild and the "crest" becomes a charge,while the "crown" takes the place of a crest:

Blazon: Gules (red) a heart thereon a tower argent (white, silver, or grey) masoned sable (black), the whole surmounted by an antique crown (the proper name for the "Irish" crown) or (gold).

Without bothering to rush to my resources, I'd bet someone already owns a red shield with a tower on it as their coat of arms. Now would a herald have kittens if he saw your tattoo? Probably not, as it would be obvious that there was no intent to usurp the heraldic property of another person in adopting what is, after all, personal body ornamentation. However, if the tower was on a ordinary shaped shield, he most definitely would arch an eyebrow in disapproval.

My advice to anyone contemplating an heraldic tattoo would be to stick to the buckle and strap devise of a clansman, and avoid using any "shield of arms".

Do I have a tattoo? No. Why? Because I have seen far too many second rate jobs. If the ink-slinger does a crappy job -- for what ever reason -- you are stuck with a bad tattoo pretty much for the rest of your life. To my mind that's Pascal's wager, and I don't think I'll take it up.

Tattoos can be re-tattooed and re-tattooed. I'm going to a guy whos being does this for 23 years and he's only 40. I've seen just about every tattoo he's done in the last 4 years and I'm impressed by his work.

There is no buckle and strap for my clan and it's Armigerous. I have a brief history on my family name - which is a lot more than any of the websites that sell crest items seem to say about the family background. They seem uncertain to what the name actually means in some cases.
The McInallys were mainly a sept of the Bucahanans - although as more and more moved over from Ireland for various reasons some (a much smaller number) of them associated with clan MacFarlane.

This is pretty much THE main thing linked to the McInallys as the clan is no longer a clan. I wish there was a belt and buckle and I wish there was a strong connection to a clan that is still functioning but sadly there isnt

[ForresterModern]

I have four chinese symbols running down the outside of my left calf---Courage, Wisdom, Honor, and Tranquility---four things to which I aspire and generally fail miserably.

After getting tired of being constantly asked what it means (I cycle alot leaving my calves very visible) I once retouted "It means I was stupid enough to pay good money to have ink put into my skin." Got a great laugh, but I still ended up having to explain the symbols anyway.

[macwilkin]

There is no buckle and strap for my clan and it's Armigerous. I have a brief history on my family name - which is a lot more than any of the websites that sell crest items seem to say about the family background. They seem uncertain to what the name actually means in some cases.
The McInallys were mainly a sept of the Bucahanans - although as more and more moved over from Ireland for various reasons some (a much smaller number) of them associated with clan MacFarlane.

This is pretty much THE main thing linked to the McInallys as the clan is no longer a clan. I wish there was a belt and buckle and I wish there was a strong connection to a clan that is still functioning but sadly there isnt

Many chiefless clans still have "clansman's badges" available today; the Buchanans, for example. What is your source for the crest you are going to use? Remember that the buckle & strap denotes that you are not the owner of said crest, so any use of a crest without might still be considered usurping arms of the "rightful" owner. I would follow Rathdown's advice in this instance.

As for the clan badge/ crest... I would avoid the direct copy of the arms, and make a design of your own making...

Since Paul is in a country with a legitmate heraldic authority (The Lyon Court) which tends to frown on individuals assuming arms (just ask Donald Trump!) then this would probably not be the best advice. Granted, it is just a tattoo, and as Rathdown stated, it would most only bring an upraised eyebrow, but it is good to know the conventions of the "gentle science" of heraldry.

Regards,

Todd

[Tattoo Bradley]

Do I have a tattoo? No. Why? Because I have seen far too many second rate jobs. If the ink-slinger does a crappy job -- for what ever reason -- you are stuck with a bad tattoo pretty much for the rest of your life. To my mind that's Pascal's wager, and I don't think I'll take it up.

Research, research, research.

Having worked as a professional tattooist for a number of years, I've seen my share and then some of "crappy tattoos." However, I've had the pleasure of seeing some good ones, and doing some good ones if I do say so myself.

If you go looking for the cheapest, quickest, easiest tattoo you're liable to get a real pooper. But, if you actually spend some time "shopping" and doing your research (it is "permanent" after all) then the risk is pretty minimal. Ok, so the guy has an off day and screws something up. In this case it's going to be something pretty minor. We had a saying "Any tattoo can be fixed, so long as it wasn't screwed up intentionally."

[Paul]

Many chiefless clans still have "clansman's badges" available today; the Buchanans, for example. What is your source for the crest you are going to use? Remember that the buckle & strap denotes that you are not the owner of said crest, so any use of a crest without might still be considered usurping arms of the "rightful" owner. I would follow Rathdown's advice in this instance.



Since Paul is in a country with a legitmate heraldic authority (The Lyon Court) which tends to frown on individuals assuming arms (just ask Donald Trump!) then this would probably not be the best advice. Granted, it is just a tattoo, and as Rathdown stated, it would most only bring an upraised eyebrow, but it is good to know the conventions of the "gentle science" of heraldry.

Regards,

Todd

Although it is a crest and it says a family name - how would they know who it actually belongs to?
Also - if the person who it did belong to (if it ever did) died more than a certain number of years ago and it wasnt renewed doesnt it then not non longer belong to them? I realise this is a concept of copyright but thought it might be similar...
From the rough design you could argue that my tattoo isnt actually the family crest... the colours are quite different and the objects within it have been manipulated.

[Paul]

Oh I've been looking at the Lord Lyon website.
Basically they're saying no Scot should fly the Lion Rampant and it is an offense to do so. I havent seen anyone convicted, sued or legally infringed in any sort of way for doing so. So what are the chances of someone bothering me about having something similar to an Armigerous clan's crest or dead person's crest?