Kilts that aren't pleated?

[NewGuise]

It's worth noting, perhaps, that a "kilted skirt" is immediately understood to be pleated. But yes, there are pleats and there are ... pleats.

[blackbeard]

The topic of “what is a kilt" has been brought up many times before. Here are a few links.

This one starts on topic but after page two....?
http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/s...ht=traditional

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/t...ht=traditional

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/t...ht=traditional

[Chas]

The topic of “what is a kilt" has been brought up many times before. Here are a few links.

This one starts on topic but after page two....?
http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/s...ht=traditional

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/t...ht=traditional

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/t...ht=traditional

Yes, yes, yes. We have discussed this before; endlessly; time and time again; Ad infinitum, Ad nauseam, eternally and forever, world without end Amen.

Except that in all this endless debate and discussion and discourse, in the ire and acrimony, in the raised voices and the table thumping and the foot stomping, in the schisms and breakaways and 'good-bye forevers', we have accidentally never come to a decision.

We claim to be the largest largest kilt-wearing group on the internet; our collective knowledge far outweighs any other either on the internet or in reality; the power we have, through sheer weight of numbers, could make or break any retailer.

But in all of this we are afraid to officially say what a kilt is. A manufacturer pops up and says "Hey - look at my new kilt!" and we roll over like puppies waiting for our bellies to be rubbed.

We hear it time and time again - 'Don't hijack threads; keep to the subject and remember that this is a kilt forum'.

This is why I called for a moderator led debate on the subject 'What is a kilt?'

With all respect blackbeard, the three links you posted do not come to any conclusion. If you can find a thread that officially, unequivocally states what a kilt is, please post it.

Regards

Chas

[dowofbuchanan]

... a kilt is a heavyweight, pleated and aproned garment, made in anyone of the various buchanan tartans, made by hand and sent to me free of charge. anything other than that doesnt count!

[blackbeard]

Chas,
I can't find a conclusion because none of them came to a conclusion.
My reason for posting the history of this topic is that because this forum is so big and there are so many opinions that it quickly goes off topic. So, yes I agree with you that if this topic is to be discussed it needs to be kept ON TOPIC. And for those that join in, to read some of what has gone on before.


I think part of the question is: what is a skirt?
My Webster's defines the kilt as a man's garment and a skirt as a woman's garment hanging from the waist.
Oxford defines the kilt as part of Highland dress consisting of a skirt reaching from the waist to the knee..... Usually made of tartan cloth, deeply pleated around the sides and back...... and a skirt: basically the same as Webster.

From these, two sources I think of a kilt as being
1.A man's garment,
2. Having a defined length to the knee, and
3.Pleats in the back and sides.
If it's got gathers; it's a skirt. If it has a hem below the knee; it's a skirt. If it has any fullness (pleats or gathers) in the front; it's a skirt. If it doesn't have pleats in the back; it's a skirt. If it closes on the left side and meets the three other criteria: it's a kilt. Not a traditional kilt, but a kilt just the same.

Kilt is a sub-set of skirt.

What makes a kilt masculine? The confidence and dignity of the man wearing it.

[Heming]

Sorry. I should have noted that a "petticoat" ("petty" meaning secondary or subordinate as in "petty officer") was originally an undergarment for men or women. For men, early on, it was a padded garment, worn over the shirt but under a doublet. Later the term could mean "waistcoat."

But yes, the line between 'masculine' and 'feminine' garments is both thin and moveable, across culture and across time. Boys even in Victorian England, much as in Shakespeare's day, often wore clothing resembling a girl's dress until they were 6 or 7, after which they were "breeched."

Over here that was quite common well into the 1900's. Theres a famous picture of our late king Olav 5th as a child, wearing what would today be called a girl's dress. If I'm not mistaken, the pic is from 1906. Olav's Mother was Her Royal Highness the Princess Maud of Great Britain and Ireland, Queen of Norway, grand-daughter of Queen Victoria (and great-aunt to Queen Elisabeth II).

[Heming]

If it's got gathers; it's a skirt. If it has a hem below the knee; it's a skirt. If it has any fullness (pleats or gathers) in the front; it's a skirt. If it doesn't have pleats in the back; it's a skirt. If it closes on the left side and meets the three other criteria: it's a kilt. Not a traditional kilt, but a kilt just the same.

Kilt is a sub-set of skirt.

What makes a kilt masculine? The confidence and dignity of the man wearing it.

TFCK of Edinburgh makes ankle-length kilts (or skirts).

Personally, I agree with the above.

[johnnym]

My personal opinion reflects blackbeard. I don't wear unpleated, solid colors, too short or too long. Again, this is my personal preference. All of my kilts are tartan.

[Fit2BKilted]

I think part of the question is: what is a skirt?
My Webster's defines the kilt as a man's garment and a skirt as a woman's garment hanging from the waist.
Oxford defines the kilt as part of Highland dress consisting of a skirt reaching from the waist to the knee..... Usually made of tartan cloth, deeply pleated around the sides and back...... and a skirt: basically the same as Webster.

From these, two sources I think of a kilt as being
1.A man's garment,
2. Having a defined length to the knee, and
3.Pleats in the back and sides.
If it's got gathers; it's a skirt. If it has a hem below the knee; it's a skirt. If it has any fullness (pleats or gathers) in the front; it's a skirt. If it doesn't have pleats in the back; it's a skirt. If it closes on the left side and meets the three other criteria: it's a kilt. Not a traditional kilt, but a kilt just the same.

Kilt is a sub-set of skirt.

What makes a kilt masculine? The confidence and dignity of the man wearing it.

I AM WITH YOU in that definition of 'kilt'; and, I propose that such should be posted prominently and permanently among the sticky proclamations of our community---perhaps with ratification by poll to seal it in our constitution?

[Panache]

The OP, while happy that so many responded, has decided that this thread has moved beyond his original intent and has asked that the thread be closed.

With this request, we now close his thread

Cheers

Jamie