Sgian Dubhs are not weapons ... It's official!

[vipermcgee]

I am SO stealing that tat idea!

Think I would prefer the tattoo version myself. It just looks....SWEET!

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Sgians dubh never have been weapons. They are just fancy versions of utilitarian gralloch (gutting/skinning) knives....

... and that, I think, is pretty much the final word on the subject.

Laws vary from place to place because community standards vary from place to place, making it impossible to create any sort of "uniform" law that would be equitable and just.

Any tool can be used as an effective weapon-- a wine bottle, or a bar of soap in the toe of a sock are probably not thought of as "weapons", but they can be used as such. Lord Cardigan, of "Charge of the Light Brigade" fame, rode down the "Valley of Death" armed with a brace of 1851 Colt Navy Revolvers-- which he never drew from their holsters, and from which he never fired a shot. Not even when surrounded, and nearly captured, by Russian cavalry. Were his pistols weapons? Well, not in that instance. The same is true of the sgian dubh tucked into the the top of one's hose.

The sgian dubh, as we know it today, isn't a weapon. Like Woodsheal said, it is just a fancy version of a once common utilitarian tool, an ordinary skinning knife. The purpose of the sgian dubh has evolved from a tool used by stalkers to a status symbol worn by those who can afford it. Talk of the sgian dubh as a weapon may sound manly and butch, but it is really just so much hot air, usually spouted by Highland Walts.

[Stratherrick]

Mind, having NEVER thought of drawing my own sgian in an argument, I'm much too placid a fellow, I have seen one stabbed into the middle of a table in a pub!

The most I've ever done with mine is cut an apple and some cheese on a picnic. My gralloching forbears must be turning in their graves!

Slainte

Bruce

[Dall_Piobaire]

I gotta agree with rick, you may or may not come up against someone who knows far better how to use one! I also know of a slick little habit of carrying a razor blade in a concncealed location, getting nicked doesn't necessarily mean getting arrested in Scotland.

That aside, A couple questions. The Sgain used to be up to an inch or so longer if I am not mistaken, thus making the orignal sgain still a weapon. I also thought the tradition was to openly show that you carried one as a matter of trust. When they were more concealed, one was supposed to leave it at the door of their guests home. I have also read about a big to do over whether or not women should be searched, as they were always suspected of carrying a concealed knife, actually expected to be carrying one was what it sounded like.

All that to no avail, as apparantly there was yet another dagger carried concealed somewhere about the armpit!

Always be prepared!

[Strings]

Rule one of Gunfighting: Have a gun (does carry over to other weapons. And is all WAY beyond the scope of this discussion)

My sgian has mostly been used to cut the filters of cigarettes in half (BACA International Convention this past January: I have strange brothers). Cut up steak a time or two as well...

Dall: there's a thread floating around here somewhere about some of the myths (I think it's something about "wearing the sgian on the inside"). Although we sometimes like to have this romantic image of the Scots running around the Highlands as miniature arsenals, the truth seems a bit different...

[Stratherrick]

Strings

Before the Act of Proscription, which banned weapon-carrying after the '45, I'm sure a lot of Highlanders WERE walking around with an arsenal of weapons on their person. A few hundred years of invading armies, by land and sea, had them on their guard.

But, as you say, self defence has given way to romance these days!

Slainte

Bruce

[Strings]

Having BEEN a "walking arsenal" at more than one SCA event, I'd like to point out that it isn't very practical. At least, not if you're doing anything other than walking around looking "ready to fight" (I'd like suggest NOT fighting that way though: not very effective)...

[Dall_Piobaire]

I don't think I was suggesting that every highlander was a land going arsenal.

But, there were those who were armed, and did carry concealed weapons. Women did as well, as the story I related I had read from an accounts of soldiers concerned over stopping and searching women.

Decorative now, but utilitarian in many senses then.

[BEEDEE]

Ladies and Gentlemen - a reminder of the rules:

Our Policy on Weapons Discussions
The only discussion allowed about any type of weapons will be those concerning weapons traditionally and/or historically associated with Highland attire and/or the Scottish regiments.

Posts containing any reference to any other form or type of weapon will be deleted, without exception.

and

Seeking & Submitting Professional Advice
The X Marks the Scot Kilt Forum is not a trained or licensed medical or legal facility. Nor is it staffed by persons trained in medical treatment or in matters of the law. Please do not submit posts seeking or offering advice in these matters, as this forum is not a professional environment that lends itself to this type of exchange. Posts containing these topics and/or comments will be deleted.

Threads in this forum are moving outside discussion of sgians dubh and into legal issues. We will be monitoring this discussion closely.



Brian & The Mod Squad

[Strings]

And very rocky legal areas indeed!

*swing wheel hard to starboard*

So I have a question (somewhat based on the legal aspects): does anyone see there being a trend towards the "fake sgians" becoming more prevalent?

Given the variety (and sometimes vagueness) of the laws regarding the carrying of a blade, and society's attitude shift away from being accepting of the wearing of "arms", I'm wondering if we could soon see a push away from the traditional sgian and towards the "fakes".