Culloden

**Stratherrick** · 2nd November 09, 11:19 AM

I've often stood on the battlefield site at Culloden. It's usually been overcast and dreich as we'd say. Very occasionally I've been there on a sunny day when the wind has dropped and the curlew takes to the air.

At some point, standing as I've always been in my Hunting Fraser kilt, I've wondered just what it must have been like to be on the opposing government lines. What must have been going through their heads as they looked across the bog and heather at hundreds upon hundreds of what they thought of as savages. I know the 'tartan' that was being worn and the kilts of the day were unlike what we wear now, for the most part, but it must have been quite a sight.

Stripped to the waist, sword or dagger and, perhaps, a targe in hand, long hair stuck across their faces in the sleet and rain, my ancestors must have known they were going to their deaths. They were not stupid. They knew that their steel was no match for grapeshot and cannon. But still they knew they had one thing their opponents did not.

The Highland charge must have been breath-taking. To see your enemy so charged up and willing to come into a hail of bullets and schrapnel nonetheless must have made you shudder as you reloaded, hoping you'd down enough of the screaming banshees before they got to YOU!

It's no wonder that the redcoats in their handsewn finery, as opposed to the tartan hordes in their loose dress, wanted to obliterate the memory, nay the very existence of these kilt-wearing warriors, so much that the atrocities and restrictions that followed were almost inevitable.

To the men on my family's side of the field, their homespun kilts were just their daily wear. To the government, they were a symbol of untameable savagery that had to be put down, at any cost. The burning of crofts, impregnating of wives by rape and driving off of cattle were designed to crush a culture beyond existence.

Thank heavens enough of the few that survived could carry on. The wounded that weren't butchered and the women that lived with their violation saw to it to pass on their memories. We owe them a great debt each time we wrap our cloth around our waist..

Slainte, in their memory...

Bruce

**dfmacliam** · 2nd November 09, 11:35 AM

Freedom is a powerful motivator, men would do extraordinary things to achieve it... One looks back through history and sees the sacrifices that men made for Freedom..

I do understand how you feel.. I have an anscestor who survived, not only the Battle of Dunbar, but also the march, the Scots prisoners made, that followed.. We wonder where we get our stregnth and determination from.. then we look back into our family histories, and we see.... it was passed down to us, from those we admire.

**Panache** · 2nd November 09, 03:16 PM

Ladies and Gentlemen of XMTS,

This thread of Stratherrick's was taken off the open forum for review because of a member concern.

Having read and discussed this post about one person standing at the site of the battle and describing his feelings, we feel this is in compliance with our forum's rules and it has been returned.

We do ask that our members remember that few groups of people, and fewer nations are spared memories of horrible deeds their forefathers did. Here in the United States of America we need look no further than the history of our own native peoples.

If this thread moves into the subject of modern politics between the Scots and English it will be closed and removed

Sincerely

Jamie and The Forum Moderators

**Woodsheal** · 2nd November 09, 04:06 PM

That's a stirring and romantic view, but let's not forget that a majority of Scots opposed the '45 Rising, and that a lot of the redcoats at Culloden were indeed Scots. As well, many of the clans were pro-government, and half (or more) of Prince Charlie's army was comprised of non-tartan-wearing lowlanders.

It was not a Scotland vs. England conflict, but more in the nature of a civil war in many ways.

Also, recent archeological work at the battlefield has revealed that the battle was bigger than has been thought, and that the Jacobites came closer to success on the field than is traditionally portrayed. Their musketry was much heavier than previously thought, for example. It was not a hopeless slaughter, but rather a near-run fight that ended in defeat, but could have gone the other way....

**BEEDEE** · 2nd November 09, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by Woodsheal

Also, recent archeological work at the battlefield has revealed that the battle was bigger than has been thought, and that the Jacobites came closer to success on the field than is traditionally portrayed. Their musketry was much heavier than previously thought, for example. It was not a hopeless slaughter, but rather a near-run fight that ended in defeat, but could have gone the other way....

That is interesting. Can you point us to a reference to this work?

Brian

**Woodsheal** · 2nd November 09, 05:31 PM

Here's one of the articles:
http://www.gla.ac.uk/departments/bat...ects/culloden/

And there's a summary of recent conclusions in the Wikipedia entry on the battle (under "Culloden Battlefield Today"):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Culloden

For the U.K. folks, the new evidence was dealt with in an episode of the TV series "Two Men in a Trench" back in '03, I think....

**Sir William** · 2nd November 09, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by Stratherrick

...Stripped to the waist, sword or dagger and, perhaps, a targe in hand, long hair stuck across their faces in the sleet and rain, my ancestors must have known they were going to their deaths. They were not stupid. They knew that their steel was no match for grapeshot and cannon. But still they knew they had one thing their opponents did not.

Bruce

Let us not forget that Prince Charles Stuart's army had routed British regulars with the Highland Charge at Falkirk in January, and it had marched to within 125 miles of London in December. Though hungry and tired, this was not a defeated army. They expected to suffer casualties but not defeat.

As for the Highland Charge, the new museum at Culloden has a really good film that puts you, the viewer, between the two lines. When I was watching it a few people found it too intense and had to leave the room.

For myself, I honor the Scots, from both sides, who fought at Culloden. I can hardly imagine worst ground to fight on.

kiltedwolfman · 2nd November 09, 06:25 PM

Leaving politics and objectives aside respect must be given to anyone who is willing to stand before the cannon for a cause they believe is worthy. Every side at one point in time thought with absolute certainty that thier side was in the right.

**kennethrmc** · 2nd November 09, 08:00 PM

I hope I don't cross any lines here, but....

I went to Culloden for the first time in May of this year. Marsha and I went through the very thorough set of museum displays, then we were actually kind-of-freaked-out by the 360 theater with such horrible violence taking place around us. But what got me was out on the actual battlefield, coming to the marker with my clan's name on it. Yes, I was wearing my clan tartan kilt. Now,it's not about politics, and I know many other ethnic groups have suffered, but something very direct and personal happened at that spot. Whatever the cause or the date, to stand where so many of one's ancestors suffered, and one's kinfolk died...it draws up powerful emotions. I actually wept, and did not feel badly for doing so.

**Bigkahuna** · 2nd November 09, 08:00 PM

That was one of the things I found so fascinating as an 18th century reinactor. Once you have stood on a field and been on the receiving end of a full musket volly, even without any shot hitting your line, the impact is incredable! I can see how hard it was to stand and take that kind of punishment. We owe a great debt to all those who held the line.