Equivalent to a tux

[thescot]

Well, I disagree with you, old chap. I see nothinh wrong with wearing a jabot with a white shirt. I certainly wouldn't wear one without a waistcoat, but I can assure you that a jabot can be worn--and frequently is-- with open doublets to excellent effect. Sorry.

Never, never, never, never, never, never, never wear a jabot over a white shirt!

[Bugbear]

I believe 007 / Sir Hillary Bray is sporting a regulation, not a PC, but I can't tell from the photo. If I go into the other room and watch ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE I won't get anything done.

AA, I am no expert, but I believe two opposing forces are at work:
1) The great tendency by many men to distrust formality, especially "effete" formality, and specialized clothing in general. This leads to notched lapels on tuxedoes ( it looks like my regular suit, so I don't feel so uncomfortable) and to all-purpose jackets like the Argyle ( which frequently comes with interchangeable buttons for day/night). This is admirable, but it tends to blur things. It is aided by the manufacturers who would rather sell you one jacket than rent you two. And they can use their suit jacket patterns to make dinner suits. And it flies directly in the face of

2) the tendency of some men to prize specialized equipment and clothing in all forms. This leads to one-upmanship, ghillie brogues, kilt watches, jewelled dirks, etc.. A similar phenomenon is the trap-for-the-unwary of buying the fanciest example available, whether or not it is appropriate for your needs. Thus Prince Charlies are bought before argyles and black argyles before tweed ones, even though the wearer might really need a good standard day coat more than anything else. Consumers like flash and sparkle. Look at all of the fur-and-chrome sporrans on eBay and then try to find a simple brown leather one.

So what are we to do? I believe formal wear is anachronistic at best, as is the wearing of neckties, honestly. So, we may as well acknowledge that it is impractical and different. I love getting dressed up and I do it because it is unusual. It is intended to make the person feel special and to make the people around him feel it, too. I think a certain amount of leg-lifting is inherent among men and probably mankind when we gather. I don't know that it is better or worse to look like the man on the shortbread tin, as compared to a James Bond villain ( the Dr Evil look is tres moderne, non?). I would simply echo the man who said here or elsewhere to wear your clothes, don't let them wear you.

It would be nice to be able to rely on films for hints of what is really authentic, but a lot of them are theatrical and geared for novelty rather than "correctness". Old photographs are fine, so long as you want to dress like someone did at the time of the photo. I have seen the same picture of that other 007, the fat bald guy, wearing a jabot in broad daylight, citing it as either the epitome of style or the epitome of misguided dressing. As soon as we have Mr. Connery's reputation and adoring fan base, we can dress like him, let the deil take the rulebook, code, guidelines, and humble opinions. Until then, we can console ourselves with having his waistline and hairline, I guess.

Ehh, what can you do.

MacMillan of Rathdown has sited at least one source, Scottish Tartans & Highland Dress by C.R.MacKinnon of Dunakin, that describes the dress argyle as being traditionally used for evening wear, but I don't have that book.

I have shifted from wearing to studying, so I do pay attention to what people say about other people's notched lapels.
Older styles of Highland attire seem to be valued among "those in the know," and I have read of and seen pictures of older style tuxedo jackets having notched* lapels (single breasted tuxedos). The admiration of old styles does not seem to hold up in non-Highland attire from what I have read...

* Even if I do misspell "notched" from time to time... it seems like one of those words that should have a silent "k" at it's beginning.

[MacLowlife]

Watch your Ks, MacBug, they may be silent, but they can be deadly, too.

For my money, or what it would be if I had any, the coolest Scots formal wear on earth is the burgundy velvet jacket with the fish-shaped buttons worn by the young duke of Argyll who is pictured hawking some fancy edition of Chivas Regal elsewhere on this site. I forget what his neckwear was, but I am sure it was over the top, too. And, yes, I know, he has sold out his heritage, but at least it was for whisky. That coat has no equivalent that I am aware of.

uote:
Originally Posted by JSFMACLJR View Post

[MacLowlife]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSFMACLJR View Post


Not sure how to get the photo in...

[OC Richard]

Sorry what I forgot to make clear in my post is that to match in with the wedding party wearing tuxes with bowties and cummerbunds I would wear the Argyll jacket likewise with bowtie and cummerbund and not wear the waistcoat. I would only wear the waistcoat when the wedding party was likewise wearing waistcoats with their tuxes.

I actually have a white bowtie and a white vest and "Churchill collar" shirt to wear with my PC for white-tie-and-tails events.

[Bugbear]

I suppose one could wear specialized buttons related to something important in one's life; that could be any number of things.

[MacLowlife]

I said the jacket has no equivalent, but I have been haunted by something I read about the celebrations on whaling ships when butchering was finished. A man would don a tunic made from the whale's foreskin and would dance on deck. I suppose it was more readily available than red velvet under the circumstances.

One can purchase buttons made ( or appearing to be made) from brass shotgun shells. One can get shirt studs made in various animal shapes, skulls, birds, shells, etc. And actual coins have been used for buttons, as well as millions of facsimiles. Unfortunately, the significance of money is pretty unavoidable for most of us. Maybe bottle caps...

[Bugbear]

Um... I'm just a naive country boy, and I don't know anything about that. :deer:

I had been planning on getting buttons symbolicly related to my tartan, then possibly having them silver plated.

[MacLowlife]

Don't know about deer, but here are some bears, only slightly compromised

http://cgi.ebay.com/Set-of-8-JACK-NI...item56366de39d


Might be worthwhile to browse the selection over at Ben Silver. It's only money...

http://www.bensilver.com/fs_storefro...root=4&show=67

[Bugbear]

Don't know about deer, but here are some bears, only slightly compromised

http://cgi.ebay.com/Set-of-8-JACK-NI...item56366de39d


Might be worthwhile to browse the selection over at Ben Silver. It's only money...

http://www.bensilver.com/fs_storefro...root=4&show=67

Thanks, I'll look over those.

I have located pewter bear and bear paw buttons at Three Feathers Pewter, but haven't ordered any.

I was planning to sculpt a cantle in clay, that's what I work with, and have a pewter cantle cast from it; I've also worked with pewter in the past, polishing and casting etc.

The deer smiley related to the first part of my post.
Captin MacAhab?...