Origin and Use of "Dress" Tartans

[Paul Henry]

Perhaps men aren't so keen on so much of the white, but there is absolutely nothing to stop them wearing it,I'm not sure I could get away with wearing such a white kilt, I'd be more than likely to get it dirty very quickly, although some here ( like Rex T) might manage it!!

[Rex_Tremende]

I'm not sure I could get away with wearing such a white kilt, I'd be more than likely to get it dirty very quickly, although some here ( like Rex T) might manage it!!

Not only do I eschew exercise, I am allergic to dirt.



Actually, I was at the Kentucky Scottish Weekend earlier this year, and I saw a mixed gender couple, neither of whom looked like competitive dancers, strolling around wearing matching dress tartans, and the effect was quite spectacular. I thought the tartan design was better than most dress tartans that I've seen, though I cannot now recall exactly what about it impressed me so. They disappeared into a crowd before I could get my camera out to capture the moment.

Regards,
Rex.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

You really, REALLY, ought to know your tartans and your categories better before you make such a silly statement.

Category #3 includes quite a few men. In fact the current world champion highland dancer is a MAN. And, almost to a man, the men of the dance world wear dress tartans.

Aside from the gender issue created by David L. Pope's faux pas, I tend to agree that most "dress tartans"-- particularly those with white backgrounds-- really are better suited to ladies attire and Highland dancing competition. That said, if someone felt they looked the biz in a dress tartan... well, that's fine by me.

[YoungMan]

My grumble with dress tartans, is that the amount of white added tends to "white wash" the whole tartan. You could have no idea what tartan they're wearing bc of all the white in it. Also for tartans like Livingstone where suddenly you're in blue and white instead of red and green. How's that even a Livingstone anymore? I say stick with the originals and let the women and dancers have their fashion.

[Dixiecat]

Can you provide pics of men wearing a dancer's dress tartan in a non-dance setting? I'm always eager to have my misconceptions shattered...

Why should I? You obviously haven't bothered to check out the link of HRH Prince Charles wearing a dress tartan kindly provided by another earlier in this thread, so I'd just be wasting my time.

I don't know of any mills that provide these tartans in heavyweight fabric designed to be made into mens' kilts

I hope you're not saying that a dancer's kilt is not a man's kilt. You do realize that highland dancing is a man's dance? You do know that a female dancer wears a man's kilt? Lightweight or heavyweight, it's a man's kilt. Just like some gentlemen on this forum wear lightweight kilts to stay cooler in a warmer climate, dancers use lightweight kilts to stay lighter on their feet.

[Rex_Tremende]

A dress tartan, as Rex correctly pointed out at the begining of this thread, need not have a white background to be considered as such.

Not I, but rather the OP himself, DavidLPope.

[Panache]

I would just like to point out from my experiences of knowing individuals involved in Highland Dancing that the dress tartans with their white base are used by both Gentlemen and Lady dancers.

The reason for this is that the judges who observe the dancers do so at a distance of some 30 feet away (or more). Standard tartan colors tend to blend with each other and don't look very distinctive. The white helps the tartan stand out.

On behalf of the Forum Moderators I ask all to be respectful of each other, and try to avoid blanket statements that may not be right.

Cheers

Jamie

[davidlpope]

I apologize for any offense I may have caused, offense was not intended. I appreciate the input from all who have responded. I request to have this thread closed unless the moderators believe there is a compelling reason to keep it open.

Cordially,

David

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I, for one, would see dancer's tartans in a different (but related) category than typical dress tartans. Though many dancers wear standard dress tartans, most of the dance tartans so-called are not really clan tartans at all, but fancy variations on clan tartans. Because they have so much white in the design (typically) they are viewed in the same category as dress tartans by many, but I think dance tartans deserve their own category.

If you take a look through the dance tartans provided by mills such as Dalgleish, you'll see a lot of colors you don't ordinarily see in clan tartans. A lot of pastels, colors such as turquoise, pink, aquamarine, etc. And, with one exception that I know of (MacGregor) these dance tartans have no official standing with the clan whatsoever. They are simply fashion tartans, designed for dancing.

Actual dress tartans, on the other hand, are often recognized by the clan (either officially or simply by popular usage). And they tend to stay closer in color to the original clan tartan, though with the added white.

And I would say that the origin of these tartans is the eighteenth century women's arisaid fashion, in which most of the tartans were white or cream based. Because this was originally a ladies' fashion, many consider modern dress tartans to be primarily for women's wear. That's fine. However, there is no objective reason why a man should not choose to wear a tartan simply because there is a lot of white in it. So I say if you are a man and want to wear a white-based tartan, go for it.

In addition to the example of Prince Charles wearing the Dress Stewart, way back in the 1840s R. R. MacIan painted his portrait of the MacPherson wearing a feilidh-mor in the dress tartan for that clan.


Then (like everything else regarding tartan) there are exceptions to the rule; so-called "dress" tartans that have no white in them whatsoever, and are simply called "dress" by analogy because of their light or bright colors. The examples David gave of MacMillan and MacLeod, as well as Barclay are prime examples of this. One that no one has mentioned so far is the Dress Fraser, which is the exact same tartan as the standard red clan tartan. For some reason unknown (at least to me) this tartan has traditionally been referred to both as the "clan" tartan as well as the "dress" tartan, and either apellation is viewed as correct.

[Dixiecat]

Thank you Matt for bringing a little sense into this discussion. I would never deny that these days the idea of 'dress' tartans have gone a little wild. Who ever thought that the Menzies tartan would be recreated as 'Special Dress Cerise Menzies' for instance.

Since men are now considering their own dance as something beneath them (and there have been a few on this forum who have looked down on dancers) the women are taking over and the mills are now catering for them. Those new tartans with such colours as turquoise, cerise, raspberry, fushia, lavender, etc. are being introduced to entice the new dancers. The young and the 'hip' and the female. That's one side of the coin of white background dress tartans. I would consider that as the 'highland dance fashion tartan'. However, there are plenty of other dress tartans that have NOT been designed for this market and are more than suitable for men to wear. For both dancing AND formal dress wear. I was a little upset to have davidlpope lump every white dress tartan into one category and categorically say that every one of them was for women and seemingly belittle not only the tartans, but the people who wear them.

What seems to be forgotten is that most of the modern tartans got their start the very same way that the new dance tartans have. That is, as something pulled out of the air by the mill and called McSomething or other. Some of you wear the XMarks tartan and proudly so, but how is the creation of that tartan any different from the new dance tartans? Both were created for a MARKET. To look down on dance tartans is to belittle most of the tartans that you gentlemen now wear.