Origin and Use of "Dress" Tartans

[Zardoz]

My wife's clan has a mostly blue 'dress tartan' which is actually the most frequently seen of their tartans;

http://www.clanthompson.org/tartans.html

[JSFMACLJR]

I also found a few clans that recognise the dress variant of their tartan.
Fraser: www.fraserchief.co.uk/tartans.html

Lady Saltoun's comments are very interesting:

"I myself would only wear the ones I have illustrated in my website, and on public occasions only the common ones. I do wear Fraser Gathering tartan (after I had a considerable hand in designing it!), but generally only in private, because I wear my tartan to be instantly recognisable. I personally intensely dislike most white or yellow ground tartans and would not be seen dead in them! But that does not mean that others should not wear them if they wish to do so.

Incidentally, when I was young, dress tartans were red ground as a rule and Hunting tartans were green or brown ground ( for camouflage out on the hill). Now they call white ground tartans "Dress" and red just red. I objected to this when designing the Fraser Gathering tartan, but was informed that I was quite wrong, so meekly gave in, but I still believe that I am right and they are wrong!
So if you want to wear one of the less well known ones, go ahead, but be aware of the pitfalls!"

[wildrover]

(The following is written somewhat seriously, and mostly with tongue lodged firmly in cheek! )

David may have been technically incorrect, but the perception that tartans in/on/with white were intended for women and Highland dancers (most of whom are female) is one that I will admit I shared until reading through this thread, and I will also admit that seeing white-based tartans marketed on several Scottish-themed web stores as "women's" adds to that perception, as do the colors in the dance tartans I've seen.

<rant>

Frankly, selling me on a white tartan will be difficult considering the majority I've seen appear to be marketed toward women and little girls. I'm not wearing that stuff..."salmon" is a food, not a color, I think "periwinkle" might be a flower, "lavender" is a candle flavor that makes me sneeze, and I'm not even sure what "mauve" and "taupe" are, even though I can spell them ...but I'm pretty certain they're pastel, and I'm not girding my loins in white with pastels on it, no way. I don't care how much pink Hulk Hogan wants to wear, he's not wearing it on a white background on something that most of the world calls a "skirt" and associates with women, even in a modern society that's become so metro that regular guys are starting to worry if they get muffin top in a pair of 300$ fitted-cut designer jeans. A recent fit test determined my "Scottish skirt" to be far more masculine (not that it's difficult, it's a kilt! No contest, kilt for the win! ), and two pairs of those damn overpriced metro jeans equals one tank. If there's a white-based tartan that's more "Carharrt" than "True Religion", I want to see it, here on this thread, in a forum that is--and I quote:

not a forum for men looking to wear womens clothing

</rant>

So by all means, let's see some white-based tartans that weren't designed for 6 year old girls to dance the Highland Fling, or for hostess dresses, bridal gowns, or miniskirts.

...Or for "Captain Shakespeare", for that matter.

MacLaren has a dress tartan (1980s):


But it's hard to tell if it would suit me.

...Not to mention, the Clan MacLaren Society website states "The Dress tartan is mainly preferred by ladies for evening wear." Thanks, guys...I assume the exception to "mainly" is highland dancers, right? Where the group is 99.9% little girls, and that one guy that everybody probably calls "Token"? Never mind that the designer is a man, and owns a kilt of it.

Wish I could see a picture, the photo colors online don't do the modern tartan justice, so I assume the dress tartan isn't being properly represented either. I can sort of picture it as a kilt, and I suspect it would look really sharp.

Anybody got a photo of it "in use"?

*pre-post edit* I was composing this in the background of work, before the prior two posts. I like that idea of a red "dress" tartan. I wonder if the Clan MacLaren society would go for the idea...that'd be awesome!

-Sean

[MacLowlife]

Gee, I was hoping to get some of that MacSomething yardage, preferably in a 12 or 14 oz weight.

[Zardoz]

Here is a fellow wearing the "Dress Stewart" tartan, like Prince Charles is in the photo posted earlier. I think this might be the only time I've noticed anyone wearing a white based dress tartan kilt at an event. And while I think I would have matched my hose to the jacket, I figure the outfit works pretty well.

[ronstew]

The word Stewart catches my eye. Beverly asked David (I presume rhetorically) if he knew that the Dress Stewart is an official clan tartan. Beverly, what is your source for this? My name is Stewart, but my line is many generations removed from Scotland. Online research leads me to believe that the chief of the Stewart/Stuart/Steuarts is Her Majesty the Queen. Nowhere have I read that she, or any of her predecessors, has made any proclamation about which tartans are or are not official. I would be thrilled if you could find me a reliable source to tell me where I could find the official Stewart tartans.

[ronstew]

My uncle in Dress Stewart:

[Dixiecat]

what is your source for this

I've been caught out! I'm in the same boat as you ronstew as I could not find any documentation after I made that statement to David. I '***'umed that since we have a link to a picture of a personage of no less than HRH Prince Charles wearing Dress Stewart, that his family must recognise it as official!

the majority I've seen appear to be marketed toward women and little girls

This is the same slant tone in the OPs first post that I objected to and which has lead to this lengthy discussion. It shouldn't be presumed that because there's a plethora of white background clan-based 'fashion' tartans obviously created for the feminine market, that ALL white background tartans are of this category. And again, since highland dancers prefer white background tartans as an aid for best viewing of a swinging kilt against dark background stages, it doesn't follow that ALL these tartans are of the 'fashion' tartan category. The original post discounted all white background tartans as unsuitable for men. I'm just trying to show that this blanket statement is untrue. Personally, I don't buy into the 'fashion' tartan craze. My dance kilt is a created white background tartan (Dress Eildon). But, this was chosen and made long before I found Xmarks and I wish I could afford to make a new one. I might have to though since the daughter has grown out of her beautiful Christina Young kilt. We've been sharing my outfit.

[wildrover]

It shouldn't be presumed that because there's a plethora of white background clan-based 'fashion' tartans obviously created for the feminine market, that ALL white background tartans are of this category.

Oh, I think it's an honest market slant that leads to the misconception that I'm guessing a few of us shared up until about three pages ago.

If you hadn't said anything, I never would've gone looking for that MacLaren dress tartan, and wouldn't have found out that it was created by a gentleman who has a kilt of it.

I still wonder if they'd go for a red-based dress tartan.

-Sean

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Just to avoid any confusion, the gentleman pictured above is Captain Ewen MacPherson, the 23rd Chief, and he is wearing (according to McIan who painted the picture) "the grey plaid of Badenach", today known as MacPherson Hunting. This sett is different than the white MacPherson tartan which is reserved for the exclusive use of the chief.