St Andrew's day ink

[KFCarter]

To be brought up in a "melting pot" with a bewildering range of values and traditions brought by immigrants from many disparate lands, none of which are allowed to prevail in the imperative for national unity, perhaps is the reason now for identifying with a distinct background and saying "This is where I choose to belong".

I think there's some truth to that, compounded further by the rootlessness of many folks here. I was born in Utah, raised in Chicago, South Carolina, Florida and eventually Georgia. Where am I from? Beats me.

I do know that my interest in my family's roots, and in particular the prominent Scottish roots, date back to a very early age, certainly before I was consciously aware of the "melting pot" and "rootlessness" issues... but perhaps they were playing a role even then.

[Bugbear]

Exactly. And I wasn't trying to overlook native American history rather trying to answer the question of the historical roots of mainly European settlers.

I understand.

My culture is born of the two, and others. Didn't the Vikings control the Highlands for a time?

[MacLowlife]

I think some of the comments on the original story were probably a little meaner than the tone of the original BBC feature. As for the comments here, we have a chance to see diversity of opinion and diversity of background in action.

For years, "Made in England" or "Made in Great Britain" have stood in the United States for quality, as if there were some kind of monolithic British mindset that abhorred shoddy goods. Now, I am not saying that goods from the United Kingdom ARE shoddy, only that laziness and craven profit - seeking are not entirely foreign to any group of humans.

Until fairly recently, South Carolina has been a very homogeneous place- full of people either descended from African Immigrants (which of course is a broad and misleading notion, Africa being a huge place with many different countries, cultures, etc) and mostly people from the British Isles. In fact, to a large degree, we are Scots in the north and English in the south. Well, pretty close. There are relatively few Slavs or Scandinavians, not even so many Germans or Italians. And the few outliers who do come here- Lebanese, Jews, post-revolutionary Cubans- tend to be thoroughly assimilated. French Huguenot names are common in our local Saint Andrew's Society. After nearly 350 years of settlement by Europeans, South Carolina has many inhabitants who have been here since forever and can claim at least a dozen 18th and 19th century immigrant ancestors.

But when somebody asked me if I was pure Scots yesterday, I had to think. I can name two ancestors who came here directly from Scotland ( including one who had to get out of town in late 1745) but they married English people who had married Swiss people who were actually French, who married Irish people who probably landed there from Scotland. And so on.

Just as Made in England is really much less definite than one assumes, Born in Scotland only means so much. Britain has been invaded repeatedly, including repeated visits by welcome and unwelcome guests from across the Channel and the Irish sea. Any ethnic group you can name has both predecessors and successors.

I am going to back away from the soap box, but I guess the point I was aiming at is that an IDEA of Scottishness, be it romanticised, or caricatured, or based on personal experience, is still just an idea, easily enough supported by selected examples. One can choose to endorse it or choose to alter it.

After thousands of years, the grass seems still to be greener somewhere else.
O wad some pow'r...

[Tobus]

I'm puzzeled by this notion of Americans having no history or cultural roots.

To be fair, I didn't say that we have "no history". I said we don't have "much" of one, comparatively speaking. Our 'national identity', as it were, is only a couple hundred years old. And it has changed a lot in that time, as new waves of immigrants came over. Our national character is a constantly changing thing, as we forge our own identity. European nations don't have that struggle; they have always known who they are because they have thousands of years of known history.

Well, I look at the underlying framework of those things you just listed and see roots going back centuries. I live in the desert South West which has a cultural flavor going back eons. Corn (maize) and beans as a traditional food, for example.

True, we do have some limited cultural identity in certain parts of the US. I live near San Antonio, for example. This area was originally inhabited by various Native American tribes. However, they kept no written history. And what culture they had was mostly wiped out as they were pushed out of the area or killed.

Sure, we have some history of Spanish exploration and settling (mostly by soldiers and monks) dating back to the 1500s and 1600s. And then, of course, the settling of the land by the original Texians, followed by the battle of the Alamo and the Texas Revolution. I love the history of Texas and consider myself a Texan first and foremost (and an American second to that). Our culture is rich with Spanish influence, cowboy culture, pockets of German and Polish settlers, etc.

But still, all of these things were brought here from the outside. And the culture we do have is a mix of these several outside cultures as they were transformed into what we have today. We don't have the kind of history where we can look back and say our families have been here for thousands of years.

And in today's crazy world, where major cultural changes happen faster and faster, I think people want something to cling to, that gives them a sense of roots and belonging. Europeans tend to take it for granted; Americans don't have that luxury.

[Phil]

I understand, and you did bring it up in the post I quoted which is what set me to thinking about it.

My culture is born of the two, and others. Didn't the Vikings control the Highlands for a time?

The Vikings or more accurately the Norsemen (they went "viking" meaning their expeditions to rape and pillage) controlled the northern isles, Orkney and Shetland as well as large parts of the western seaboard, Galloway, The Isle of Man and Ireland around Dublin. They also settled in Normandy in France and the Normans (or Norsemen) conquered England in 1066 under William the Conqueror, later spreading north into Scotland. Many Scottish clans derive from these Normans, Robert the Bruce ( from the French de Bruis) being one notable one.

[Bugbear]

I'm sorry, Phil, I was trying to edit that post and decided to take that first part out again because it wasn't sounding the way I intended.

On the Viking part, both you and MacLowlife pretty much fill in the details of the point.

[McFarkus]

I remember being asked in grade school what I was. I was puzzled by this and answered, "American." The teacher (in Chicago) then asked where my family came from, I paused and answered, "Virginia and Indiana." "No," she replied, "what foreign country did your family come from?"

I went home and asked my parents and found that my parents and grandparents couldn't tell me the specifics, but my mother did say that her Gordon ancestors came over in the 18th century and my father's mother said her McIver ancestors also came over in the 18th century. So as a kid I latched on to our Scots heritage.

I have since found that our first immigrant ancestor came from England to Virginia on the first boat in 1607 and that subsequent immigrant ancestors came from Wales, Ireland, Scotland, France, Germany and Holland. So I'm a mutt, but I still relate strongly to my Scots heritage because of that early experience.

[cajuncelt]

I have to admit I was a little "irked" by this as well.
I would add that my family (as well as most of us to some degree) were part of a very old and ancient piping tradition in Scotland; most if not all major battles/wars; the Clearances; as well as the settling of new lands including the continuation of Scottish/Gaelic traditions.
That's my (our) heritage...period. It was paid for in blood, sweat, tears and death. So, frankly I could give a $h!t what ANYONE thinks about my American a$$ wearing a kilt and playing bagpipes.

[wildrover]

I'm speechless that anyone would think America has no cultural identity...but I won't soapbox.

Do you guys & girls really think that people "want to be Scottish"...as in, adoption of another culture, or do you think that they're simply adapting parts of a culture with which they have a connection, to their own modern lives?

-Sean

[cessna152towser]

Well, the title certainly got me to look, I thought the link was going to lead to something about a special edition of printer ink cartridges labelled to commemorate St. Andrews day.
An interesting article, some positive comments but also a few bizarre ones, each to their own I suppose.