"Auld Lang Syne" Heresy

[OC Richard]

The trouble with Burns' poetry is that it's written in a dialect of English that few speak, can read, or understand.

It's to some degree a foreign language to most English speakers.

So with any foreign-language poetry, what to do?

-Having a person familiar with the language read the poetry aloud in its original form conveys the intended sound to the listeners. But little of the meaning of the poetry is conveyed.

-Translate the poetry into English (or in Burns' case, Standard English) and you get the meaning but the entire sound-sense is lost.

What we often get here in the USA at Burns' Dinners is neither of the above. Instead we get people who cannot read or pronounce or understand Burns' poetry struggle along in a halting reading which conveys none of the sound that Burns intended. The audience gets neither sound nor meaning.

When poetry is stripped of both sound and meaning, what purpose is being served?

It would be like honouring Van Gogh in a room hung with horridly crudely distorted copies of his paintings done by untalented hacks. How thus is Van Gogh honoured?

I would say, in the absence of someone who actually speaks the Lowland Scots dialect to do the Burns' readings, simply raise a glass in his honour and sing Burns' songs etc.

[Standard]

The trouble with Burns' poetry is that it's written in a dialect of English that few speak, can read, or understand.
....
What we often get here in the USA at Burns' Dinners is neither of the above. Instead we get people who cannot read or pronounce or understand Burns' poetry struggle along in a halting reading which conveys none of the sound that Burns intended. The audience gets neither sound nor meaning.

We are lucky here at our rather small Burns night gathering to have a Scottish (born and raised) gentleman who is versed in Burns read and recite Burns poems to us with the proper accent and after explain in modern English what was meant by certain words and phrases. This seems to be the best of both worlds as it lets us hear the words spoken in their originally intended manner, but still helps us understand their meaning.

[Bigkahuna]

It's not so odd, as there are 3 ways to become a Cajun -- by the blood, the ring & the back door. My wife's family's surname, for example, was believed to originally Scottish -- Melanc(s)on -- which is claimed as a sept of the Macmillans. (other evidence points to a Yorkshire origin).

There are two types of boudin, btw -- boudin blanc and boudin rouge, the former being very similar to Haggis. And in a further twist, the French Foreign Legion's march is "Le Boudin":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyoLv_HVFJE



Belgians were forbidden at one time from joining La Legion.

T.

First, let me thank you for posting that beautiful version of "old lang syne". I had never heard that one before and find it far superior to the one sung on New Years Eve. As for " Le Boudin", if I recall correctly, it refers to the blanket roll worn over the shoulder by the Legionaires. It was called le boudin due to its resemblance to the sausage.

[macwilkin]

First, let me thank you for posting that beautiful version of "old lang syne". I had never heard that one before and find it far superior to the one sung on New Years Eve. As for " Le Boudin", if I recall correctly, it refers to the blanket roll worn over the shoulder by the Legionaires. It was called le boudin due to its resemblance to the sausage.

Indeed it does -- in my haste to post about Le Boudin (Rouge), I forgot to mention the bed rolls on the top of the knapsack.

T.

[macwilkin]

The trouble with Burns' poetry is that it's written in a dialect of English that few speak, can read, or understand.

It's to some degree a foreign language to most English speakers.

So with any foreign-language poetry, what to do?

-Having a person familiar with the language read the poetry aloud in its original form conveys the intended sound to the listeners. But little of the meaning of the poetry is conveyed.

-Translate the poetry into English (or in Burns' case, Standard English) and you get the meaning but the entire sound-sense is lost.

What we often get here in the USA at Burns' Dinners is neither of the above. Instead we get people who cannot read or pronounce or understand Burns' poetry struggle along in a halting reading which conveys none of the sound that Burns intended. The audience gets neither sound nor meaning.

When poetry is stripped of both sound and meaning, what purpose is being served?

It would be like honouring Van Gogh in a room hung with horridly crudely distorted copies of his paintings done by untalented hacks. How thus is Van Gogh honoured?

I would say, in the absence of someone who actually speaks the Lowland Scots dialect to do the Burns' readings, simply raise a glass in his honour and sing Burns' songs etc.

I agree in principle, but given the availability of noted Scots Burnsians such as John Cairney, Christopher Tait, etc. reciting the poetry of RB on CDs, DVDs, etc., it is not too hard at all for a non-Scot to learn the correct pronunciation of the words. And as Standard mention, having expats from Scotland helps as well.

T.

[highlander_Daz]

my own pet peeve (along with the (Zyne) is when people cross arms whilst singing it, a few years ago HM the queen was criticised for not crossing her arms by ignorant journalists.

[Heming]

The trouble with Burns' poetry is that it's written in a dialect of English that few speak, can read, or understand.

"A language is a dialect with a country..."


The trouble with Burns' poetry is that it's not written in English, but in Scots, a language akin and similar to English but with it's own grammar and vocabulary. And that was before there was a standard spelling for Scots, too. Not easy to read for anyone not very used to it!

Scots almost died, or drowned in English, or whatever, but now an estimated 1.5 million people speak/understand it, and many work hard to conserve it as a separate language (the same thing went on in Norway early last century as Norwegian was being washed out by Danish).

This is not a political statement, and please do notice that I have made no remarks about empirealism or oppression. Also, if a mod finds my words distasteful, I hope they're moved to the penalty box asap-zulu.

Heming (language geek).

[turpin]

Not being a Burns scholar like Thescot, I will yet add my surmise. If the assumed meaning of "willie waught" is "hearty draft" or otherwise, a big drink, perhaps "willie" is a transliteration of "walie" as in, from the Address to a Haggis "...clap in his walie nieve a blade. he'll make it whistle". In this case walie means great or big (or hearty).

What sayest you Burnsians.

[McMurdo]

Turpin

I'd have to agree.

[Phil]

I used to work with a Willie Waugh. Burns was not averse to introducing unknown words to his poetry, houghmagandie being another example. It may well be that these were very much local slang terms where he lived or there may have been a notorious toper called Willie Waugh in that area with a reputation for taking a skinful. Glasgow nowadays has many such made up words which, although they may sound like Scots, are in fact local slang.