Ponderings of an ancient Scot.

[OC Richard]

"Is it now time for the non Scots to START to wear their own (non Scots) tartans?"I think, probably, its already started. There are countless tartans that represent State, military unit,Country, region and so on.
...as time distances Scots connections, then are we going to see more and more tartans that are more appropriate to the future kilt wearers' connections?

As people have pointed out, this process is already in full swing (so to speak) here in the USA.

I'm a newbie on this forum and one of the first things I did was to look back over a large number of old posts and threads, especially in the "show us your kilt pics" section and "your best kilt pic" section. I was struck by how large a percentage of the tartans being worn are recent inventions, both non-Scottish tartans such as American Heritage etc and new Scottish non-clan tartans such as Isle of Skye etc.

In the "old days" tartan choices were few and individuals either tried to find a tartan that linked somehow to their familiy or just picked one of the old clan tartans because they liked it. All individuals and Pipe Bands wore old clan and regimental tartans because they were the only tartans available.

But now, how different it is here! A local Pipe Band started up and chose the California tartan. Our band, back in the 1980's, went with British Columbia simply because we loved the colours (remember when teal and fuschia were the hot colours?) A friend moved to Kentucky and the pipe band he joined wears the Kentucky tartan. Many pipe bands the world over are going with self-designed tartans (Field Marshall Montgomery for one) or new non-clan tartans (Spirit Of Scotland Pipe Band went with...Isle of Skye...not Spirit of Scotland... go figure.)

[MacBean]

I really hope that the kilt wearers of the future, with distant, or non Scots connections, will move on to new tartans and leave the clan tartans to the Scots.

I see some sense in this. The Scottish traditions have been cheapened by poor immitation and that is a shame. It may also be a shame that Scots somewhat abandoned their old ways and language (Gaelic or Scots) in the interest of fitting in better with the English (who do seem to value conformity).

I am, I suppose, American with a Scottish surname and lineage to Inverness shire, and a clan chief who resides, not in Scotland, but in Tuscon, Arizona. So Jock, do you wear a clan tartan corresponding to your surname? If you do, then I do the same. The chief difference is that you reside in Scotland and I do not. Another difference is that for every Scottish ancestor, I have 20 or so who were from other lands, yet the surname stands. If Clan MacBean were restricted to those living in Scotland, then it would cease to exist; there just aren't enough left in Scotland to make it work.

Having argued both sides now, I would love to avoid cheapening the traditions, but also wish to uphold the story of Clan MacBean and Clan Chattan in general. Perhaps we need a new version of tartan - modern, ancient, weathered, hunting, and EXPATRIATE?

[MacBean]

I have often thought it odd that Scotland, with all its incentives to increase population, has never opened its doors to those of Scottish ancestry who might like to return.

[Jock Scot]

I have often thought it odd that Scotland, with all its incentives to increase population, has never opened its doors to those of Scottish ancestry who might like to return.

As I have never had to face that problem,I stand to be corrected here, but as far as I am aware there is nothing stopping you from returning here, apart from the "normal hoops and jumps" that any visitor wishing to take up residence here has to endure. Perhaps I am being naive?

[Fougasse]

I have often thought it odd that Scotland, with all its incentives to increase population, has never opened its doors to those of Scottish ancestry who might like to return.

It already does, if you're a Kiwi and play rugby!

[davidlpope]

I think the necessary tension( at least in my mind) when confronting the idea of creating new non-Scottish tartans is the fact that the kilt is the national/ethnic/cultural attire of Scots and those of Scots-descent. I personally don't understand the appeal of tartans that are aimed at non-Scottish ethnicities (German, Dutch, etc.) that have distinct national/ethnic/cultural traditions in their own right.

I guess that in my mind I give the US a "pass" on this factor, since I don't think that we're old enough, or homogenous enough, to have a uniform, distinct national/ethnic/cultural tradition of our own yet. As such, most kiltwearers I know came to kilts by way of an interest in their Scottish ancestry. In most settings where I see the kilt being worn, it's in the context of a clan association gathering. Given that, I'm don't think that the motivation of most Americans for wearing a clan tartan is any different than that of Scots.


Cordially,

David

[Tattoo Bradley]

I really hope that the kilt wearers of the future, with distant, or non Scots connections, will move on to new tartans and leave the clan tartans to the Scots. Thoughts ladies and gentlemen?

I've been thinking about this thread and keep arriving at the same thing:
Does living in Scotland make your connection to the historical (and no longer active) Clan and Clan system make you any more connected?

The way I see it the years between my existence and that of "the Clan" are the same as yours. What's the difference? Well, you live in Scotland and I live in the United States. If we use the logic you're proposing, then should you not be wearing your district or University tartan? You are, after all, no less removed from "the clan" than anyone this side of the pond. My surname is Scottish and I wear the tartan of that Surname. I presume your kilt/tartan was chosen the same way?

Leave the Clan tartans to the Scots

makes me wence a bit since I wear my kilt because it is Scottish and the symbolism of such. Is it a romantic notion to do so? Probably. Is it hurting anyone? Of course not. Why do you wear a kilt? If my assumption of your tartan choice was false then I also ask: how did you choose your tartan? I think it would be pretty sad if Americans were expected to wear a tartan that they are more "more closely connected" to, when as stated, we're no less connected than a current resident of Scotland.

[Scotus]

I think the necessary tension( at least in my mind) when confronting the idea of creating new non-Scottish tartans is fact that the kilt is the national/ethnic/cultural attire of Scots and those of Scots-descent. I personally don't understand the appeal of tartans that are aimed at non-Scottish ethnicities (German, Dutch, etc.) that have distinct national/ethnic/cultural traditions in their own right.

I guess that in my mind I give the US a "pass" on this factor, since I don't think that we're old enough, or homogenous enough, to have a uniform, distinct national/ethnic/cultural tradition of our own yet. As such, most kiltwearers I know came to kilts by way of an interest in their Scottish ancestry. In most settings where I see the kilt being worn, it's in the context of a clan association gathering. Given that, I'm don't think that the motivation of most Americans for wearing a clan tartan is any different than that of Scots.

David:

Very, very well said! Your first paragraph is exactly how I feel about it!

America (and Canada and a few other places) are somewhat different because of the large population of Scottish descendants. Anyway, what you've said here is what I was trying to say about my own non-interest in non-Scottish tartans.

Scotus

[Jock Scot]

OK chaps I think some of your are missing the point a wee tad. What I am asking is for all of us to peer into a crystal ball and see what YOU see for the future. This is a theoretical discussion about you Non Scots(sorry) wearing non Scots tartans as the connection to Scotland dilutes over the next umpteen decades, centuries even. Might I suggest you read my original post carefully, this is a discussion that I hope does not cause any "heat" to be generated.

[McMurdo]

I've been thinking about this thread and keep arriving at the same thing:
Does living in Scotland make your connection to the historical (and no longer active) Clan and Clan system make you any more connected?

The way I see it the years between my existence and that of "the Clan" are the same as yours. What's the difference? Well, you live in Scotland and I live in the United States. If we use the logic you're proposing, then should you not be wearing your district or University tartan? You are, after all, no less removed from "the clan" than anyone this side of the pond. My surname is Scottish and I wear the tartan of that Surname. I presume your kilt/tartan was chosen the same way?

makes me wence a bit since I wear my kilt because it is Scottish and the symbolism of such. Is it a romantic notion to do so? Probably. Is it hurting anyone? Of course not. Why do you wear a kilt? If my assumption of your tartan choice was false then I also ask: how did you choose your tartan? I think it would be pretty sad if Americans were expected to wear a tartan that they are more "more closely connected" to, when as stated, we're no less connected than a current resident of Scotland.

Very well said Brad. It reminds me that we should celebrate our similarities instead of focusing on our differences.