Which tartan for Buie (Bowie)?

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Not to nitpick, but time as we know it is a human invention, it is a way of keeping up with how many times the earth has turned from one event to the next. We break up our days into units that we call hours, minutes and seconds, all of which are measurements calculated only by humans in relation to the position of the earth in respect to the sun. If you travel to another planet, the same chronology will not apply, as the earth's orbit is unique and is not shared by any other planet. Humans have been measuring time for so long - since the Stone Age - that we often forget the very concept of time is our own invention and does not exist as we know it outside our very limited perspective here on earth.

What you are describing here is the method in which we calculate time. Yes, we human beings have invented methods for keeping track of the passage of time. We did not invent "time" any more than we invented "space."

By the same token, what people generally believe to be the "truth" is what we come to accept as the truth. Millions of people worldwide believe in the existence of some sort of deity, does their belief in such a deity make the existence of one true? Well, for those who believe, it does - so much so that they are willing to sacrifice their own lives for what they believe. Of course, athiests would argue otherwise, and for them, the non-existence of any form of deity is the truth. The same can be applied to almost any subject that people believe in or have an opinion of. Did the holocaust really happen, or were we just led to believe it did through wartime propaganda? Was the attack on the World Trade Center an assault against the U.S. by the Taliban, or was it an "inside opporation"? Tin-foil hats or school text-books? To quote Ponsius Pilate: "What is truth?"

What we subjectively believe or understand to be true (which is what you are describing) is one thing. What is in fact objectively true is another.

To use one of your own examples, either the Holocaust happened or it did not happen. My believing it or not does not have any bearing on whether or not it was an actual historical event.

Our understanding can be either true or false compared with objective reality. How sincerely or devoutly we hold to a false belief does not make it any more true.

In a desperate bid to bring this back on topic, one can sincerely believe that the Campbell of Argyle tartan is a recognized and authentic tartan for the clan. The reality is that the chief, the Duke of Argyle, has said it is not. My sincere belief that it is does not change the fact that it is not. Does that mean I cannot wear it? Of course not. But if I go about saying "this is the clan tartan" then I would, objectively, be wrong.

Relativism is a big pet peeve of mine, and that's what we are really getting at. But this is getting far off topic, so I request you PM me if you want to discuss this further. Let's leave this thread to discussion of the Bowie/Buie tartans, shall we?

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I've always thought it interesting that the Duke of Argyll holds such a strong position in regard to a tartan that has historically been worn by Sutherlands, Munros, and Grants, as well as by Campbells;

He's entitled to have a strong position in regard to the tartan because, as the chief of a clan, one of his prerogatives is determining what is and is not an official tartan of the clan.

[davidlpope]

In a desperate bid to bring this back on topic, one can sincerely believe that the Campbell of Argyle tartan is a recognized and authentic tartan for the clan. The reality is that the chief, the Duke of Argyle, has said it is not. My sincere belief that it is does not change the fact that it is not. Does that mean I cannot wear it? Of course not. But if I go about saying "this is the clan tartan" then I would, objectively, be wrong.

I've always thought it interesting that the Duke of Argyll holds such a strong position in regard to a tartan that has historically been worn by Sutherlands, Munros, and Grants, as well as by Campbells; especially considering that most of the historical portraits of Campbell chiefs show them wearing predominately red tartans - not all that different in appearance from the simple red and black checks of the Buie tartan.

Deil's Chiel, I believe you are mistaken on this point. The Black Watch/Government Sett/Clan Campbell/Hunting Grant/Hunting Munro tartan as worn by Sutherlands, Munros, Grants, Campbells, etc. is not the same as the "Campbell of Argyll" tartan that Matt referenced, which the Duke of Argyll has deemed is NOT a Clan Campbell tartan. The "Campbell of Argyll" tartan has alternating white and yellow overstripes and, to my knowledge, has no connection with Sutherlands, Munros, Grants, Campbells, etc.

Cordially,

David