traditional vs. classic

[Tobus]

And then there is the gent in the white PC. I think it is kind of nice- and I am grateful he didn't go for contrast by wearing a black shirt with it, in the Traditional Classic Gangster style, but I spy a too-long kilt, a ruche tie, a daywear waistcoat and a summer tropical jacket.

What makes it a daywear waistcoat? Is it just the color, or something else?

[davidlpope]

With reference only to the jacket: This is almost identical to the jacket worn by Loudon MacQueen Doulglas in the photograph opposite page 36 in book THE KILT, A Manual of Scottish National Dress, published in 1914.

If the jacket was made from tweed this would be 100% correct for day wear; made from a finer wool or barathea (as in the photo) it is still correct for day way and perfect for a guest at a wedding, although, perhaps, a trifle too formal for most other outings.

Although the number of button on the front may vary from one to three, the basic Argyll jacket still remains an all-time classic.

MOR,

Can you scan the image or perhaps just describe the setting this jacket was being worn in? I'm not disputing that the argyll style jacket has been around for a long time or that it might be appropriate for a more formal event, such as a wedding, during daylight hours. I'm merely postulating that the current ubiquitous iteration (black fabric with fake silver lozenge-shaped buttons) was not traditionally worn in a "Highland Games" setting where now it seems to predominate, at least here in the US.

Cordially,

David

[davidlpope]

What makes it a daywear waistcoat? Is it just the color, or something else?

I think the poster was referring to the fact that it is a "5-button" waistcoat, which comes up higher on the chest. Usually Prince Charlie Coatees and Regulation Doublets are worn with a lower, 3-button waistcoat. The distinction isn't really formal/daywear, though, since Sheriffmuir Doublets (formal) are worn with the higher style. The question is really whether it is typical to wear a high waistcoat with a Prince Charlie.

Cordially,

David

[MacLowlife]

I did not realize Cluny McPherson was wearing a regulation doublet. From the angle of the photo, it looked like another Argyll. Pretty hard to go wrong with a regulation.

I tried not to get too long winded in my earlier post, in order to preserve the readers' patience a little bit, which I hope to use up now. In SC, there is an outfit mockingly referred to as a Charleston Tuxedo: khaki pants and a navy blazer, called that because so many people in Charleston (and throughout the south, really) wear it everywhere. It is as dressed up as many men ever get. If you are too hip for a navy blazer, you might want a black blazer.

I am not that hip myself, but I see that as the real Argyll question: Black or Navy? I think black is iffy for daywear, because it has not been universally accepted as a daytime color for (British and American) men in most of the twentieth century, whereas navy, or charcoal, or other grey, or even brown would be. By contrast, if you wanted to be strictly formal after six, you'd want black. So there you are, either you get black and look like an old west bad guy at noon, or you get blue and run the risk of looking underdressed at night. If you get tweed, you can't wear it for formal events. And yes, in the daytime, black looks like part of a band uniform.

But the white jacket? The problem, as Bertie Wooster learned when he came back from Cannes, is that white formal jackets really only work when it is so hot that even the perceived warmth of a black coat seems too much. (Of course, that is not really an issue most of the time- either there is AC or it's so hot that a white coat is still stifling.) Wear white formal wear any other time, though, and you look like you're trying to be Cab Calloway. Or Captain Steubing.

[macwilkin]

I tried not to get too long winded in my earlier post, in order to preserve the readers' patience a little bit, which I hope to use up now. In SC, there is an outfit mockingly referred to as a Charleston Tuxedo: khaki pants and a navy blazer, called that because so many people in Charleston (and throughout the south, really) wear it everywhere. It is as dressed up as many men ever get. If you are too hip for a navy blazer, you might want a black blazer.

To me, the blue club jacket (traditionally, Blazers were double-breasted) is one of the best investments a man can make for his wardrobe, because it can be dressed up (with grey flannels) or down (with chinos) for almost any occasion, save formal events. And, it also may be worn in the summer months with the traditional dress of the Sommers Isles, Bermuda Shorts and hose.

T.

[Tobus]

I think the poster was referring to the fact that it is a "5-button" waistcoat, which comes up higher on the chest. Usually Prince Charlie Coatees and Regulation Doublets are worn with a lower, 3-button waistcoat. The distinction isn't really formal/daywear, though, since Sheriffmuir Doublets (formal) are worn with the higher style. The question is really whether it is typical to wear a high waistcoat with a Prince Charlie.

Cordially,

David

Excellent explanation! I learn something every day on this board.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

MOR,

Can you scan the image or perhaps just describe the setting this jacket was being worn in? I'm not disputing that the argyll style jacket has been around for a long time or that it might be appropriate for a more formal event, such as a wedding, during daylight hours. I'm merely postulating that the current ubiquitous iteration (black fabric with fake silver lozenge-shaped buttons) was not traditionally worn in a "Highland Games" setting where now it seems to predominate, at least here in the US.

Cordially,

David

David,

Sorry I can't scan the image-- it's beyond my technical capabilities-- but basically it's a photo of Mr. Douglas standing in a garden in a tweed Argyll jacket looking very 1914!

I agree with you that the black Argyll with silver buttons is more at home at a wedding reception than at a Highland games. I guess it shows up at Highland games because it isn't as hot to wear as tweed-- and certainly doesn't look as out of place as a Prince Charlie coatee or Montrose doublet, both of which I've seen worn to games in North America.

Best regards,

Scott

[davidlpope]

David,

Sorry I can't scan the image-- it's beyond my technical capabilities-- but basically it's a photo of Mr. Douglas standing in a garden in a tweed Argyll jacket looking very 1914!

I agree with you that the black Argyll with silver buttons is more at home at a wedding reception than at a Highland games. I guess it shows up at Highland games because it isn't as hot to wear as tweed-- and certainly doesn't look as out of place as a Prince Charlie coatee or Montrose doublet, both of which I've seen worn to games in North America.

Best regards,

Scott

Scott,

Thanks for the description. I'll have to track down a copy of the book. It sounds like a good reference.

I've also seen many Prince Charlies being worn at GMHG- sometimes with a printed logo t-shirt!

Cordially,

David

[Panache]

...I agree with you that the black Argyll with silver buttons is more at home at a wedding reception than at a Highland games. I guess it shows up at Highland games because it isn't as hot to wear as tweed-- and certainly doesn't look as out of place as a Prince Charlie coatee or Montrose doublet, both of which I've seen worn to games in North America.

Well Scott doesn't that depend if the Highland Games in question are Black or White or tie formal affairs?

Cheers

Jamie

[MacLowlife]

The champagne bucket toss

The Highland Reel

Roll and biscuit throwing ( accuracy and distance)

Tonsil Hockey

Guest picking up, aka Picking Up Strangers

(and, at the very end, sometimes... Distance Hurling)

ooops, and, usually in an abbreviated form of either black or white tie,
The Walk of Shame