Dress tartan = failed concept?

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

This tartan, as portrayed by MacIan is described by Logan as "the full-dress pattern of the chief." According to D.C. Stewart, this sett first appeared in the VS and was first worn by the Chief in 1829. So, this is good evidence that in Logan's day (1845) there was an understanding of dress tartans being worn by men on formal occasions.

Well, yes and no. This is actually the "personal tartan" of the Chief, so it really wasn't intended to be a clan tartan. It was also, as I recall, predominately gray, not white, as is the modern "Dress" M'Pherson.

Although I can't speak to the antiquity of "dress tartans", I can reaffirm what Jock has said-- tailors always told their clients that the dress tartan was intended to be worn at formal gatherings-- by men. Now whether that was true, or just a ruse to sell another kilt, I wouldn't know. I've never thought it odd to see a gentlemen so kilted at a tartan ball, but always thought it looked a bit unusual to see a "dress tartan" worn with a hairy tweed jack at the Highland games.

But then I'd think it looked odd if I saw someone at a matinee performance of a ballet in white tie-- I suppose it is all down to dressing for the occasion.

[creagdhubh]

Well, yes and no. This is actually the "personal tartan" of the Chief, so it really wasn't intended to be a clan tartan. It was also, as I recall, predominately gray, not white, as is the modern "Dress" M'Pherson.

Although I can't speak to the antiquity of "dress tartans", I can reaffirm what Jock has said-- tailors always told their clients that the dress tartan was intended to be worn at formal gatherings-- by men. Now whether that was true, or just a ruse to sell another kilt, I wouldn't know. I've never thought it odd to see a gentlemen so kilted at a tartan ball, but always thought it looked a bit unusual to see a "dress tartan" worn with a hairy tweed jack at the Highland games.

But then I'd think it looked odd if I saw someone at a matinee performance of a ballet in white tie-- I suppose it is all down to dressing for the occasion.

Actually, it is not the personal tartan of Cluny Macpherson. The 'Crubin' plaid, historically speaking was tradtionally known as the 'Chiefs' plaid, and I mean 'plaid' as in the Gaelic meaning for 'blanket' and not the often common name for tartan! There is also a red form of the dress Macpherson with the same sett-these are known as the Macpherson of Cluny tartans, which followers of the Macphersons of Cluny, who have held the Chiefship for many centuries, wear as their tartan. There is also the famous 'Breacan Glas' or the grey Macpherson tartan, which is known as the hunting Macpherson. This sett is one of the oldest known (registered) tartans of the Clan Macpherson is by far the most popular setts among the clan today. It especially wears well on the moor, since the grey, black, red, and blue colors tend to fade into a purplish hue from a distance, blending in nicely with the surrounding purple heather-great camo for stalking!

[Galician]

Just as an example, from what I said above, I finally got a somewhat decent photo of me wearing my Galician tartan.

I'm wasn't asleep. I was at a fantastic Interceltic music fest and enjoying one piece by a young Galician band there which I find particularly moving.

Oh, and I found the tag which came with the kilt. On it they describe it as "Galician Modern."

http://picasaweb.google.com/bzh.new....85674221777314

[Lachlan09]

Forgive me talking from a point of "off the top of my head" ignorance, but I thought light "dress" tartans, including white-based, were thought to be devised as ladies' "arisaid" tartans back in the 1700's, along with smaller versions of existing setts.

[Jock Scot]

Forgive me talking from a point of "off the top of my head" ignorance, but I thought light "dress" tartans, including white-based, were thought to be devised as ladies' "arisaid" tartans back in the 1700's, along with small pattern tartans.

I am not speaking from any certain knowledge here, but as I understand it "arisaids" are not and never have been the same as "dress tartans".

[davidlpope]

Forgive me talking from a point of "off the top of my head" ignorance, but I thought light "dress" tartans, including white-based, were thought to be devised as ladies' "arisaid" tartans back in the 1700's, along with smaller versions of existing setts.

Right, this is a theory that has been advanced, but as far as I can tellthere is no hard evidence for this. See the linked thread from page one for further discussion.

Cordially,

David