contemporary dressy/formal

[CMcG]

Traditional Highland dress is certainly not a costume, nor is it categorically unappealing to the younger demographic; I'm a young man and I like the way it looks.

What I think the style of dress in my OP provides is a contemporary alternative to the traditional mode, not a replacement. Most of the dressy occasions I have worn the kilt to (weddings, graduations, etc), I've been the only one or a very small minority. A more muted colour palette combined with colourful tartan seems to fit well and be welcome. I'm inclined to reserve more traditional outfits for Highland/Scottish/Celtic gatherings.

[Brian K]

I have been reading this thread with great interest. It is similar in theme to the one about wearing a double breasted jacket with a kilt and, ultimately that one seemed to boil down (devolve?) to a debate on the merits of traditional vs. non-traditional highland dress, especially as regards formal dress.

I do love the most traditional highland formal wear. I'd be thrilled to be able to wear a velvet doublet with lace cuff and jabot and all the proper accessories to some sort of public occasion. Whenever I have seen pictures of a gentlemen in that outfit I've been practically green with envy. Alas, at present, I can't even afford to buy a casual kilt, let alone a full formal outfit but someday.... I have even been designing tartans like a fiend at Scotweb in hopes of someday being able to afford a kilt with my own tartan. Of course, now I have a couple hundred or so to choose from. But I digress.

As much as I like highland wear i do have one concern with it. In general (I know generalizations are dangerous) current highland styles that involve wearing a jacket and some sort of tie are the result of the Disarming Act of 1746.

By the time the act was repealed in 1782 an entire generation of highland adults had never worn the kilt unless they had served in the British Highland regiments. By this time the only styles Highland tailors had made to wear with a coat had military styling and we see this still to day in metal button, the arrangements of buttons, the various styles of turned back cuffs, shoulder cords or epaulets and taches. Certainly these details are more restrained than in the 19th century military dress they're based on, but they are military in style nonetheless. Unfortunately we have no way of knowing at this point how highland civilian attire would have evolved without the Disarming Act.

As mentioned here, and in other threads, H.R.H. Prince Charles, Duke of Rothesay dresses spectacularly when kilted. It has also been noted that when so attired H.R.H.'s jackets have none of the details ordinarily associated with "traditional" highland dress. Not even a brass button or a shoulder cord. he has even been photographed wearing an adaptation of Windsor Court dress with a kilt for formal wear instead of one of the more militarily styled jacket. The only nod he seems to make to traditional style is to have his jackets tailored short enough that the hem does not fall below the fell of the kilt. Here is a gentleman who could, perhaps lead us in a new direction of dress without a slavish attachment to tradition. tradition is wonderful, but it should serve the present rather than enslaving us.

That being said, I think I agree with the consensus that seems to be developing. The gentlemen in the pictures in the OP seem to be trying too hard. The ruche tie, in particular, seems to scream "Look at me! Don't I look just grand and cool as all get out?!?" And don't even get me started on the whole black, black, black, black and black business. Jersey Shore is right!

Even when dressing formally, a gentleman should try for a casual insouciance that tells the world that he is comfortable and that he has done this before. It's alright by me to try new things and stray away from the traditional, but there's no law that says you have to look like a jackass when you do it.

[Jordan]

Brian K,

H.R.H. Prince Charles, Duke of Rothesay and heir apparent to the Throne of Scotland and a minor kingdom to the South,

I wonder what our members from that minor kingdom to the south would say to that comment

Jordan

[St. Amish]

I disagree that black shirts shouldn't be worn with the kilt. Nearly all the shirts I wear with my kilt are black. Of course, I don't own a jacket. Black jacket, black shirt may be too much.

[Chas]

I don't wish to go off topic, but these are Royal Titles and Style of the Duke of Rothsay's mother, her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II -

Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, of Great Britain, Ireland and the British Dominions beyond the Seas Queen, Defender of the Faith, Duchess of Edinburgh, Countess of Merioneth, Baroness Greenwich, Duke of Lancaster, Lord of Mann, Duke of Normandy, Sovereign of the Most Honourable Order of the Garter, Sovereign of the Most Honourable Order of the Bath, Sovereign of the Most Ancient and Most Noble Order of the Thistle, Sovereign of the Most Illustrious Order of Saint Patrick, Sovereign of the Most Distinguished Order of Saint Michael and Saint George, Sovereign of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire, Sovereign of the Distinguished Service Order, Sovereign of the Imperial Service Order, Sovereign of the Most Exalted Order of the Star of India, Sovereign of the Most Eminent Order of the Indian Empire, Sovereign of the Order of British India, Sovereign of the Indian Order of Merit, Sovereign of the Order of Burma, Sovereign of the Royal Order of Victoria and Albert, Sovereign of the Royal Family Order of King Edward VII, Sovereign of the Order of Merit, Sovereign of the Order of the Companions of Honour, Sovereign of the Royal Victorian Order, Sovereign of the Most Venerable Order of the Hospital of St John of Jerusalem.

I have read and re-read and can find no reference to the Throne of Scotland.

Regards

Chas (an Englishman)

[Brian K]

My apologies to anyone I have inadvertantly offended with my post. I have as much English in me as Scot but the prevailing mode here seems to be to refer to H.R.H. The Prince of Wales by his Scottish titles so I thought I'd have a little fun with it. Anyone who actually thinks of England as a minor kingdom to the south of Scotland has never counted on Her as a friend, as my beloved country has and will well into the future.

[Lyle1]

Whether you like it or not is immaterial but you are treading on insulting and contentious ground by describing our Scottish national dress as a "costume". Because it is not your traditional dress gives you no right to deride the culture of others to whom it belongs.

I did not mean to be insulting; I tend to be a bit more blunt than I should be when I am in a hurry. I prefer a traditional kilt, for myself, but it makes me happy to see young men wearing contemporary kilts. They are wearing kilts and enjoying the experience, which they might not do if restricted to the traditional wool kilt. When young people stop wearing some type of kilt, what then? I do think that some of the discussions on this forum about what is proper and or appropriate do start to make the kilt sound like part of a costume. The kilt, itself, is a timeless classic, but that can not be said for the other clothing worn with it. For example, I agree that a velvet doublet with jabot of quality lace would look very nice, but is it practical today? How many members of this forum would ever have an opportunity to wear a velvet doublet? In most situations, today, a velvet doublet would be very out of place. However, the coats pictured at the beginning of this discussion would be quite practical in a variety of situations. I personally think that the PC's that I have seen look a bit like a costume, and I would not wear one. I would, however, consider wearing the updated PC shown in the opening photos. By voicing my own preference about the PC, I am not suggesting that other members should not like the more traditional PC, anymore than I would attempt to tell another member what tartan to admire. I find this forum to be a wonderful source of information. I don't always agree with the preference of other members, but I find it educational to read the varying opinions. If I felt that I could not wear a kilt to suite my taste and lifestyle, I would not bother wearing it at all. For me, the kilt is symbol of my Scottish heritage and my own individuality. AND DON'T EVEN BOTHER TO CRITIQUE MY USE OF THE WORD, "SCOTTISH."

[MacBean]

There are a couple of things I don't think work with the kilt--
1) Black shirts

Really, even in informal wear? I have not found black (or blackish) shirts with a kilt a problem at all, though I might agree with you when accompanied by a jacket.

Overall, I enjoy the change of pace of these styles. They are intended to move away from the standard and bring new meaning. Not fully successful, but I still liked them. I don't think I would wear any of them personally though.

[MacBean]

I greatly appreciate MoR's concise guide for levels of dress. As someone who lives in the midwest USA, I can say that there is no event I have not seen overalls worn at.

Formal levels of dress and rules that may apply are mostly non-existant here,...
Joe

I do agree that formality is fast disappearing. Last time I even saw black tie in use was 1967. If I wear a tie or a jacket to work, people make comments (and I work in a Fortune 100). Doesn't mean that we can't push back on that, but I might find MacMillan's breakdown a bit unrealistic in everyday society. Perhaps he lives a different life from me.

[kid icarus]

i wish this thread was posted when i was looking for wedding rentals for my groomsmen. not that it matters a whole bunch but the last picture is exactly what i was looking for. granted, if i was getting married in scotland this would have been an easy find, but here in chicago not so much. i hope the british shop realizes this is what i am going for....

personally, i don't find these outfits coming across as trying too hard. i find them extremely cool.