contemporary dressy/formal

[fluter]

Who says black shirts shouldn't be worn ?

Not I. I find there are certain moods when the Wallace tartan seems to call out for a black silk shirt and black hose. There may even be a time for what we call "Clan Paladin:" black kilt, black shirt, black hose, black shoes, black hat... red garter ties?

I admit there are probably more occasions for black tie than for Clan Paladin, but I aspire to "Be prepared."

[Lyle1]

You might be insulting, I'm not yet sure.

So, in what situation would my velvet doublets be out of place? Balls? Dances? Family gatherings?. These are some of the events to which I wear Highland evening dress. Am I out of place? Be very careful how you answer that one!

If you have occasion to wear a velvet doublet, be glad and enjoy yourself. I still suggest that many members would not be in a position to get much wear out of a velvet doublet. I attend at least a dozen black tie events a year, and I own four tuxedos. I am not, however aware of many dressy affairs to which I could wear a kilt (a fact that I regret), let alone a doublet. Many of the members are limited in the amount that they can spend on kilt accessories, and one of the more contemporary jackets would probably be a better option, since they are more flexible in how they can be worn. I personally would probably not buy a kilt jacket that I could only wear to very formal affairs.

[MacLowlife]

The great advantage we enjoy on the internet is being able to meet people we might not speak with otherwise. This forum is a good example of that- people meet who are separated by geography and by what we might call "lifestyle differences" and we discuss and sometimes misinterpret things and frequently learn from each other. My guess is we'd do even better in person, but then, most of us couldn't manage the drive, much less the drive home. We'd likely misinterpret a lot less if we could hear each other speak and see each other smile.

I like clothes, not just kilts, but other clothes, too, which may explain in part why I have over a dozen garments that are manifestly impractical. Some of them are so impractical that I have owned them for years without ever actually wearing them, beyond trying them on occasionally. But they please me.

On the other hand, I find my formal wear to be fairly practical. I belong to a club that has one black tie party and one white tie party every year. My tails didn't actually belong to my grandfather, but they were made while he was still in his own tail-wearing phase of life. As for tuxedoes and dinner jackets, I find that owning one is the best guarantee of needing one. And the same has held true for me and the way-too-many kilt jackets I have accumulated. I do own a velvet doublet- I used to own two, but resigned myself to never being skinny enough to wear the other one, so it belongs to another these days. I own lots of PCs and I am actively trying to get a velvet jacket through the Argyll conversion process. Truth be told, I recently bought a wedgewood blue slub silk morning coat that I believe is going to make a dandy evening kilt jacket. God Himself scratches His head when the subject of practicality approaches the subject of my wardrobe. Lord, what fools these mortals be.

I recently saw a very very inconsiderate caricature (circa 1935 or so) of a Non-Scots Ethnic gentleman, smiling broadly around his cigar, sporting a kilt, a checked jacket and waistcoat, and carrying a shooting stick and a double barreled gun. In the background was a similarly dressed Scotsman. The caption said "When in Rome..." Regardless of whether one is offended by the thing, it still illustrates excellent advice. Sometimes it is good to do as the locals do.

Where I live, the locals do occasionally get Very Dressed Up. Other places, maybe they don't. By the time one reaches a certain stage in life (I will be 52 in 12 days) one pretty much lives where one wants to. And, I might add, one pretty much lives AS one wants to. If you don't mind dinner parties and cocktail conversation, you find yourself at those gatherings. If you do mind, well, you decline the invitations or you just don't go. And pretty soon, you won't get invited. Sure, we all have to go to a few things against our will, but I have found the list gets shorter every year. And we make the life we want, otherwise. We host parties, we join clubs, we go to concerts or games or worship services or we just hang out with friends. And we dress the way we like, allowing always for the dictates of weather.

One of those opportunities for misinterpretation is the American tendency to confuse British terminology. Or Vice Versa. Formal means business dress to an Englishman, I believe, while it means party clothes to an American- a semi-specific class of party clothes nicely explicated by brother MacMillan above. I expect "contemporary" means "not my look" to me. I like the clean lines of some of the jackets, but can't even be nice about black shirts and ruche ties. My friends in the clergy wear black shirts, but not me.

Thanks for letting me rattle on- if you see me in a black wing collar shirt, it probably isn't actually me. Maybe my evil twin.

[MacLowlife]

Lest anyone forget just how many Scots settled in South Carolina, I invite you to notice three posts in a row from the Palmetto State, from differing points of view.


But I must agree with Ancien Robert- the point really IS to have fun.

[NewGuise]

I attend at least a dozen black tie events a year, and I own four tuxedos. I am not, however aware of many dressy affairs to which I could wear a kilt (a fact that I regret), let alone a doublet.

A stupid, ignorant question perhaps, but ... why not? What would prevent you from wearing a kilt to one or all of those black tie events?

I wore a black suit to my most recent black tie event, while my partner wore a tux - I don't have one, since I too seldom attend such events. Yet now that I have a couple of nice kilts I fully intend to wear them to at least some vrey formal events; indeed, it is already expected of me, by all who have seen me kilted. The problem is or was that I am not at all fond of the Prince Charlie, and don't think I could carry off a doublet (if only because I would not look right standing beside my always dapper but more conservatively-dressed partner), although I think that they look great on others. So I've commissioned a jacket, which should arrive on time to wear to the next opera I attend (and soon to be revealed on XMarks)...

[Lyle1]

A stupid, ignorant question perhaps, but ... why not? What would prevent you from wearing a kilt to one or all of those black tie events?

That is a very good question, actually. As another member has pointed out, the many Scots settled in the the Carolinas at least as early as the 1700's. However, I do not feel the Scottish presence (or any ethnic presence) here in the way I have felt it in other parts of the USA. Most things here are homogenized and on the bland side! I have been told that one person did occasionally wear a kilt to local black tie events, and it was considered quite odd and inappropriate. I have gotten looks for wearing a double breasted tux, so I am not ready to push things quite yet! I am working on some contacts that might provide more opportunity to wear a kilt, so I am hopeful. I do have a very good friend in the Charlotte, NC area who is active in that local Scottish community, but he has informed me that I would be denied entrance to many events if I did not wear a PC. I think I've made my feelings clear on the PC; I'd rather stay home.

[CMcG]

I'd like to propose an alternative to the ruche ties shown in the OP. What I like about them is that they are different from the standard four in hand, though I agree with the majority opinion being expressed here that they are a bit much.

I did some experimentation with different knots on a regular tie and found that a double knot or half Windsor gives a larger imprint without resorting to the poofiness of a ruche.

A full Windsor knot would look even more distinct from the standard four in hand but I don't have a shirt that would accommodate its larger gauge. Several of the photos later in the OP show a spread collar that might work.

Here's a half Windsor knot on a navy coloured silk tie and my take on the look of the OP, with what I have in my closet. I think I'm going to invest in some darker buttons to swap with shiny ones on this Braemar jacket, which will help move the look in the contemporary direction. The hose are navy (not black), though that doesn't show up too well in the pic.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

That is a very good question, actually. As another member has pointed out, the many Scots settled in the the Carolinas at least as early as the 1700's. However, I do not feel the Scottish presence (or any ethnic presence) here in the way I have felt it in other parts of the USA. Most things here are homogenized and on the bland side! I have been told that one person did occasionally wear a kilt to local black tie events, and it was considered quite odd and inappropriate. I have gotten looks for wearing a double breasted tux, so I am not ready to push things quite yet! I am working on some contacts that might provide more opportunity to wear a kilt, so I am hopeful. I do have a very good friend in the Charlotte, NC area who is active in that local Scottish community, but he has informed me that I would be denied entrance to many events if I did not wear a PC. I think I've made my feelings clear on the PC; I'd rather stay home.

I think you'll find that a great many people in North America refer to ALL Highland evening jackets as "Prince Charlies"-- regardless of the cut. In my experience no well-dressed gentleman is apt to be turned away from even the most exclusive Scottish event in this part of the world for wearing a regulation doublet, or a dress Argyll jacket.

White socks is another matter entirely.

[kid icarus]

is it me or do all the jackets in those pictures seem a tad on the longish side? which is weird because i think the prince charlie is way too short....is this the new style in kilt jackets (being longer)? or am i just seeing things? what do ya'll think of this? is it also longish?

[fluter]

How many members of this forum would ever have an opportunity to wear a velvet doublet?

Raises hand. In fact a neighbor recently passed on a doublet that was more my size than his. I have not worn it yet, but the night is young!

Last time I even saw black tie in use was 1967.

Dear me! That's when my first dinner jacket was purchased---second hand, for what it's worth. I hope I did not get yours!

Being a musician, I may be a statistical outlier. However, I'll just bet I'm not the only person here who has more than one dinner jacket/tux. Hmmm? No, I thought not. Actually I finally upgraded that 1967 one in about 2005, but do you know what? I like the lapels on the old one better!