contemporary dressy/formal

**fluter** · 16th February 10, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by kid icarus

is it me or do all the jackets in those pictures seem a tad on the longish side?

Now that you mention it, all except the Sherriffmuir are about the same length---very close to the sleeves' length. My more traditional jacket has the hem a couple of inches higher than the sleeves.

However, all are in the neighborhood of the fell line, so I think they're viable.

**Brian K** · 16th February 10, 09:46 PM

The problem with a longer jacket is that if the hem falls below the fell of the kilt it can interfere with the swing of the pleats. If it ain't got that swing, so to speak, why wear one? The hem of the jacket, in other words should rest on the top of your backside and no further than where it starts its downward journey.

**kid icarus** · 16th February 10, 09:46 PM

what is a fell line?

**Brian K** · 16th February 10, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by Ancienne Alliance

Dear sir,

You do not digress in any way (or so little...) and we, here at X Marks the Scot, would be most pleased if you could show us your tartans designs (hundreds you say... whoo !... be steady, my heart )

For the rest, I find your conclusions quite befitting and congratulate you.

Best,

Robert

Merci, Cher Robert, for your kind words. I would like to share some of my tartans but I'm not sure how. I'm a bit clumsy with the computer at times. I read the instructions for posting a link for my introductory post and couldn't manage that. If I can figure out how to get some pictures here I will. In the meantime if you go to the Scotweb tartan designer and put the same name I use here into the advanced search field you'll find the ones I've made public.

In one sense my tartans fit into this topic because some of them use some slightly unconventional design elements that, at least on the screen, give the impression of a 3-D woven effect. Nick and I have been corresponding (he encouraged me to join this forum) and he is intrigued by the techniques (having never seen them) and he wonders how they'd look if they were actually woven. I can't afford to commission cloth to be woven right now, but perhaps someone else ght someday. Scotweb hold the rights, not me, and if someone wants something I've designed they're welcome to them.

The question become one of whether or not someone would consider them suitable because they are not entirely "traditional." I have done many very traditional tartans but I am most pleased with the designs that are less so.

Thanks again, Robert.

**Brian K** · 16th February 10, 10:13 PM

The fell of the kilt, if I understand correctly, ends at the point at which the pleats are no longer sewn down and swing freely. This at the flare of the buttocks, aproximately one third the length of the kilt - according to Barbara Tewksbury.

**Tobus** · 17th February 10, 07:19 AM

Originally Posted by MacMillan of Rathdown

Maybe people just dress up more in Virginia?

Simply because one does not have regular occasion to dress in a more formal manner doesn't mean that they shouldn't know that's expected when they are called upon to dress up.

I will admit that (unfortunately) most North Americans don't have (or create) the opportunity to dress up. When my wife and I lived in Europe we received, on average, invitations to three black tie events every month. We also attended five or six white tie events every year. Were these snobbish affairs? Well, if you think something like the local Gaelic Athletic Association dinner is snobbish, then I suppose so.

The big difference between here and Europe is that most Europeans like to dress up occasionally, and enjoy climbing into a "monkey suit" and taking their date to something nicer than the mosh pit at the local disco or club. It has nothing to do with with "social status"-- whatever that is-- and everything to do with taking pride in "puttin' on the Ritz" and enjoying a night out on the tiles.

Years ago, in Los Angeles, I belonged to a dinner club that met once a month, always in a different member's home-- and always in black tie. What started as four couples ended up with about 30 of us... just having (well-dressed) fun.

That was a very well presented point. I agree that Europeans tend to find more occasion to "dress up" than Americans do (or at least they did when I lived there). Even their 'casual' clothing is much more dressy than you find in America.

It may have something to do with the American mentality of rejecting old-world values. It may just be that Americans as a whole don't care much for tradition. Whatever the reason, it does seem to be true that formal occasions are much more rare in the US than in Europe. And in some areas of the country, the culture of dressing up for nice occasions either never caught on or went extinct.

I've always been impressed by photos of yesteryear when men dressed sharply even for common everyday activities. I wish we could turn this boat around and go back that direction. But it's an uphill struggle. I have a hard time trying to convince people at my workplace to even tuck their shirts in. I've started a trend of wearing neckties once a week, which seems to be catching on, but some people just refuse to do it. That seems to be the prevalent attitude around here. Dressing up is pointless or somehow unmanly. Heck, I'm wearing a waistcoat and pocket watch today and have already gotten some comments about it.

I like the idea someone posted about starting up a regular series of dinners or events specifically for "puttin' on the Ritz". I'm going to think about that one.

**macwilkin** · 17th February 10, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by Tobus

That was a very well presented point. I agree that Europeans tend to find more occasion to "dress up" than Americans do (or at least they did when I lived there). Even their 'casual' clothing is much more dressy than you find in America.

It may have something to do with the American mentality of rejecting old-world values. It may just be that Americans as a whole don't care much for tradition. Whatever the reason, it does seem to be true that formal occasions are much more rare in the US than in Europe. And in some areas of the country, the culture of dressing up for nice occasions either never caught on or went extinct.

I've always been impressed by photos of yesteryear when men dressed sharply even for common everyday activities. I wish we could turn this boat around and go back that direction. But it's an uphill struggle. I have a hard time trying to convince people at my workplace to even tuck their shirts in. I've started a trend of wearing neckties once a week, which seems to be catching on, but some people just refuse to do it. That seems to be the prevalent attitude around here. Dressing up is pointless or somehow unmanly. Heck, I'm wearing a waistcoat and pocket watch today and have already gotten some comments about it.

I like the idea someone posted about starting up a regular series of dinners or events specifically for "puttin' on the Ritz". I'm going to think about that one.

I'm not so sure I agree with this; as you mentioned, look at any photo from the late 19th/early 20th century, and you will see that Americans dressed up for a wide variety of occasions. My grandfather, for example, was an Iowa farmer who wore coveralls in the fields, but who would have never dreamed of wearing them to church or lodge -- that was what a suit and tie were for!

Instead of a rejection of "old world traditions", I think the rejection was more of traditional American ways during the 1960s with the various counterculture movements.

T.

**mull** · 17th February 10, 07:45 AM

I love the idea of a velvet doublet, but as I have mentioned really have no where to wear it. I would love a reason to buy one.

I think I will take the suggestion to host a formal dinner, but now have to face the reality that none of my intended guests have formal wear either.

Now what?

In a recent post here someone mentioned a tux being the lowest level of formalwear. Until I joined x marks, I was unaware there was anything more formal than a tux.

I have worn a tux exactly two times in my life. Once, in the 80's to prom (a horrible white tux) and once to stand in a wedding. Obviously both were rentals. I do not know anyone who owns a tux.

Still, this thread has given me the idea that maybe there are others in my area that may choose to dress for dinner, if I can just find them.

Joe

**Tobus** · 17th February 10, 07:55 AM

I have worn a tux exactly two times in my life. Once, in the 80's to prom (a horrible white tux) and once to stand in a wedding. Obviously both were rentals. I do not know anyone who owns a tux.

Heh, well, I've never worn a tux in my life. Even at all the weddings I've been in (including my own), nobody wore tuxedos. In a lot of cases, a wedding is the only event that people will even don a suit for, and they think a wedding is the most formal affair there is.