contemporary dressy/formal

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

is it me or do all the jackets in those pictures seem a tad on the longish side? which is weird because i think the prince charlie is way too short....is this the new style in kilt jackets (being longer)? or am i just seeing things? what do ya'll think of this? is it also longish?

The problem with 90% of the photographs used by retailers to promote the sale of various items of Highland attire is that the clothes rarely fit the model. Sleeves can be too long, the body of a PC too short, or the kilt isn't worn at the proper height. It is hard to say for sure in this photo if the jacket is too long, although it does look as if the body of the coat could be a tad shorter-- although it may just be the way the model is standing. The overall "look" is good, the ruche tie excepted. The colour of the tie is excellent, but turning up the collar of the shirt is, in my opinion, very untidy and looks like exactly what it is-- the wrong shirt and tie combination. My objection to all ruche ties is that they are quite obviously fake; in my book a pre-tied tie is no tie at all, and a gentleman should avoid fakery at all costs.

[Brian K]

MacMillan -

I was surprised to discover, when I Googled ruche ties, that the beast can actually be tied! The second hit was for an outfit that sells traditional style cravats, such as you'd wear with a morning suit, and it's all in how it's tied. http://www.thecravatcompany.co.uk/howtotie.htm It looks better than what has been shown here, but I still think it's a bit much.

BTW, Richard, ever the gentilhomme, requested that I post some of the tartans I've designed at Scotweb. I started a separated thread - in General Kilt Talk because it was a request from this thread, though I probably should have posted it in Tartans and Heraldry. Obviously, it could be moved by a moderator at their discretion.

Regards,

Brian

[MacLowlife]

Mull, I was interested by your comment about wearing and not wearing a tux. My experience is that many women LOVE to dress up and will jump at the chance. When I was a young lout, girls would host parties they dubbed "creative black tie" which meant you could wear what you wanted. Of course, they were going to be dressed up and you could either follow suit or, well, maybe sit at the children's table. If pressed, most men can come up with a dark jacket, maybe even a dark suit and a white shirt. Those who don't own a black bow tie can probably fake something. That's where the creative part comes in. I remember one guy wearing a pair of charcoal coveralls and a white shirt with bow tie underneath. Many of us remember the whole "black tie and blue jeans" look from the 80s.

I am not advocating taking food from the mouths of children, or even going into debt just to have a tuxedo, but I do believe a man can manage a formal outfit for under $50- especially if he already owns a kilt. It may not pass muster at the Caledonian Ball, but it will probably work for an elegant dinner at home with friends, candles, and salad forks.

As they say, every person in the world is either wearing used clothing or going naked. "Vintage" formal wear is a great way to go.

But even then, I'd stay away from the ruche ties...

[mull]

MacLowlife,

You are correct, in that all the women I know enjoy dressing up and would no doubt jump at the chance to have a formal dinner.

It might be the only motivator to push the men to join, although if they choose not to and I have to entertain all of the ladies alone...

[Jock Scot]

MacLowlife,

You are correct, in that all the women I know enjoy dressing up and would no doubt jump at the chance to have a formal dinner.

It might be the only motivator to push the men to join, although if they choose not to and I have to entertain all of the ladies alone...

Well this germ of an idea is about to take root! Well done. Don't forget the Host and hostess dictate the dress code, if THEIR wish for black ties(bow) to be worn then it is down to your guests to respect that. If they can't, then they must respectfully decline the invitation and in good time. These events are PRIVATE affairs in your own home and what the hosts ask for, the hosts get!With no ifs or buts.

Alright when you are getting started there will be teething problems, but if the idea catches on, before long "Dress codes", conventions call them what you will, will become almost second nature to your circle of friends and guests. Just like some of us in Scotland! It is just harmless, if a bit expensive fun. Don't go mad though. Go for it!

[MacBean]

That is a very good question, actually. As another member has pointed out, the many Scots settled in the the Carolinas at least as early as the 1700's. However, I do not feel the Scottish presence (or any ethnic presence) here in the way I have felt it in other parts of the USA.

My own MacBean family settled in Laurens Co. in mid-1700's as part of the generous bounty paid families leave Britain and settle the interior, not far from Sparanburg. I was in Clinton a couple of years ago, and although there may not be much Scottish presence, the local folk sure looked Scottish! Looked just like my Gandpa in fact!

It isn't far north from you that Scottishness is more accepted and commonplace of course.

[MacBean]

Maybe people just dress up more in Virginia? Simply because one does not have regular occasion to dress in a more formal manner doesn't mean that they shouldn't know that's expected when they are called upon to dress up.

I will admit that (unfortunately) most North Americans don't have (or create) the opportunity to dress up. When my wife and I lived in Europe we received, on average, invitations to three black tie events every month. We also attended five or six white tie events every year. Were these snobbish affairs? Well, if you think something like the local Gaelic Athletic Association dinner is snobbish, then I suppose so.

The big difference between here and Europe is that most Europeans like to dress up occasionally, and enjoy climbing into a "monkey suit" and taking their date to something nicer than the mosh pit at the local disco or club. It has nothing to do with with "social status"-- whatever that is-- and everything to do with taking pride in "puttin' on the Ritz" and enjoying a night out on the tiles.

Years ago, in Los Angeles, I belonged to a dinner club that met once a month, always in a different member's home-- and always in black tie. What started as four couples ended up with about 30 of us... just having (well-dressed) fun.

I think this may have been in response to one of my posts. As an indicator of what a great expression it is, I will quote it, even though it has been quoted at least twice before. I like (and was raised in) formality, but also like casuality too. It would be fun to attend local St.Andrews Society affairs, but in Philadelphia you can only get in by being invited by a member, and there is no way to know who is a member. A bit too exclusive for such an old society?

I do ask my children to dress up for Thanksgiving and Christmas Eve. At the recent Clan Chattan reception by the Provost of Inverness in the Town Hall, we were asked to dress as "formal as possible". A nice way to put it. There were quite a range of formalities present, but everyone looked great. I just wore a suit.

[Brian K]

Even more horrifying than the ruche tie is the fact that the company I provided the link for provides tie that automatically come with a matching pocket square. If there is anything that screams of not knowing how to dress AND trying way to hard it is making sure your tie and pocket square are of matching material! *sigh*

[auld argonian]

Hey! When I was a lad here on the South Side of Chicago, THE sign of a sharp-dressed-man was the matching tie and hanky!

You godda have class...

Best

AA

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

It would be fun to attend local St.Andrews Society affairs, but in Philadelphia you can only get in by being invited by a member, and there is no way to know who is a member. A bit too exclusive for such an old society?

You might want to check out their website-- look in the "Members Only" section and you will find the details on applying for membership.

As with many clubs you will probably be asked to attend two or more functions to meet other members before submitting your application. This is not about "exclusivity" but rather about making sure that you will feel comfortable about taking on the responsibilities of membership. A Saint Andrew's Society is not like a clan society, and for that very reason not all perspective members decide to join.

Even if you decide that membership in your local Saint Andrew's Society isn't for you, you can still attend their various functions: Burns Suppers, Tartan Balls, Kirkin' of the Tartans, etc., although for some events (dinners and dances) you will have to buy a ticket.