contemporary dressy/formal

[fluter]

I have heard of a farmer's tan and a trucker's tan. Do you suppose there is such a thing as a kilt wearer's tan ( knees only)?

Much like the Boy Scout suntan of my youth; acquired by wearing T-shirt, long shorts, and stockings at summer camp. The intersection, if you will, of the kilt-wearer's tan with the farmer's.

[Jordan]

Never heard of the others but I have heard of and had a Squadies tan, the sleeves on your shirt rolled up and the line across your forehead where your beret sits

[wildrover]

I think you're referring to the Hunting MacPherson, or Badenoch, tartan that is being worn. It is a very beautiful and understated tartan. It is not, however, modern or contemporary.

Absolutely right! It may not be contemporary or modern, but it shares many similarities with the lighter-hued contemporary and modern kilts in this thread, and demonstrates that one need not look like a black and white photo (or a door-to-door evangelizer) while wearing them . Some (actually, most) of the modern & contemporary kilts in this thread would look great, if the outfit dispensed with the monochrome look, and that is specifically why I said "don't change the kilt," in reference to CMcG's first photo .

The billiard table raises questions. How does one play in a kilt?

You get to it, and hope you're playing with pretty and flirtatious women, and not a bunch of dudes dressed like the Village People .

OCR, you raised an interesting point about sock height. To my simple mind, the logical place for hose to go is just above the largest circumferential point on the calf- lower means your garters just squeeze them down and higher is too high.

Check out the hose worn by the guy shooting pool. Compare to the rest of the photos. Folding the hose top over the calf looks good and accentuates the calf, whereas folding above the calf leaves a great deal of the flashes exposed (vs simply the ends) and the double layer of material above the calf gives a guy chicken legs. This is all prior to any remarks involving the term "skirty"...

MoR is right, as usual- the photographers seem to have been working with gentlemen who were not well fitted- way too many long jacket sleeves for my taste, reaching well down onto the hand and even the thumb.

You know, I just had a jacket tailored, and they wanted to bring the cuffs down about halfway between the beginning of the meat of my thumb joint and the first knuckle...it may simply be a modern and contemporary style. I don't personally like it, and asked for a higher cuff, as I agree completely that the shirt cuff should be at the base of the thumb joint, and the jacket just above so as to show a bit of the shirt cuff. Kilt fitment, to me, seems very similar...there's a "right" and "wrong" feeling to how I wear my kilt, hose, hoodie, jeans...one way feels comfortable, the other feels restrictive.

This may work us all of the way back to the OT-contemporary practice among some contemporary folk (aka the yout of today) is to wear sweaters / jumpers that cover the entire hand, down to the finger joints.

The long sleeves are a feminine fashion...I have never seen a man do this, except out of necessity for lack of gloves, and once in a TV commercial as a joke. My girlfriend, on the other hand, has a great many shirts and sweaters like this, and I know a lot of girls who cut a hole in the cuff for their thumb to keep the shirt down. The only male analogue I can think of is a particular sweater intended for alpine use, with a neoprene hand gaiter extending from the sleeve...the sleeve itself is a normal length. I do own and wear a sweater with overly long cuffs, but it's meant to be worn with the cuffs folded, much like the tops of most kilt hose.

I attribute the too-long sleeves on jackets, too long kilts ( caused by wearing them on the hips?) and too tall hose all to the same flesh-concealing impulse.

I don't think it's a flesh-concealing impulse, just a lack of education, possibly a lack of self-awareness, and certainly a reaction to current marketing trends...there's a marketing joke going around these days that "men are the new women". Seriously. Google it.

Don't believe the hype.



Cheers and with tongue planted firmly in cheek,
Sean

[davidlpope]

This may work us all of the way back to the OT-contemporary practice among some contemporary folk (aka the yout of today) is to wear sweaters / jumpers that cover the entire hand, down to the finger joints.

A la Duncan from MOTG?

[OC Richard]

You know, I just had a jacket tailored, and they wanted to bring the cuffs down about halfway between the beginning of the meat of my thumb joint and the first knuckle...

I'm used to seeing Scottish military jackets, which usually have the sleeves rather longer than one would see on an American civilian suit. Often the sleeves come down nearly to the knuckles. One factor perhaps is that no shirt cuff shows on the military doublets. Anyhow, being used to this, when I see Scottish jackets which end at the wrist, they look far too short. So, to my eye, most of those jackets in those fashion shots look like they have about the "right" sleeve length, a bit shorter than a Scottish military doublet, but longer than an American suit.

Anyhow, some traditional Scottish sleeve lengths:

Highlanders of Scotland, 1860's



and in an old photo



and in the modern Army

[Ancienne Alliance]

I'm used to seeing Scottish military jackets, which usually have the sleeves rather longer than one would see on an American civilian suit. Often the sleeves come down nearly to the knuckles. One factor perhaps is that no shirt cuff shows on the military doublets. Anyhow, being used to this, when I see Scottish jackets which end at the wrist, they look far too short. So, to my eye, most of those jackets in those fashion shots look like they have about the "right" sleeve length, a bit shorter than a Scottish military doublet, but longer than an American suit.

Yes I agree, I feel the same.


Best,

Robert

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

It doesn't matter what the military do, civilian Highland attire isn't a uniform. Sleeves are shorter on civilian attire for a reason. They make it easier to eat with your jacket on. Long, knuckle dragging sleeves are a menace at the dinner table as they tend to catch on things (like glasses) and knock them over. Since the 1900s dinner clothes have had shorter sleeves. As it became more acceptable to wear an ordinary suit to the table, those sleeves also became shorter, with the result that by about 1930 the proper length of a gentleman's sleeve was to the wrist, with about a quarter inch of shirt cuff showing. Fewer glasses of claret (or beer) were knocked over as a result.

This same evolution took place in the military, which is why mess jackets have shorter sleeves than ceremonial dress. A pipe major is hardly going to sit down to dinner in his full band uniform, is he? Ceremonial dress (in the British Army) has evolved over quite a period of time. That said, the ceremonial jacket is still regarded as the "overcoat" it was two hundred years ago. And, as any good tailor will tell you, the sleeves of a civilian overcoat are longer than those of a suit coat (or kilt jacket) and should end at a point approximately mid-way between the wrist and the knuckle of the middle finger. (The sleeves used to be longer, as they are in the military, but have become shortened to facilitate driving a motor car.)

Sleeve length is, ultimately, a matter of preference. But, if one wishes to avoid the look of having been

"issued his kit
and where it touches
it fit"

then he should probably follow the norms of accepted civilian tailoring.

[wildrover]

traditional Scottish sleeve lengths:

Thanks for the information and photos!

Sleeves are shorter on civilian attire for a reason.

Interesting and good to know, thanks.

[OC Richard]

two of the five men I gave as examples are in military uniform

[MacLowlife]

I have long believed that pipers' sleeves were fitted to look "right" when the elbow was crooked, i.e., long for when the arm is straight.

I may well wear my clothes too short, though I find that I generally have to buy my shirts a little longer than average. Part of that is to make up for the shrinkage of commercial laundry, but part is to accommodate my arm length. All in all, I will stand by my earlier recommendation, at least for me. Anyone else may wear what he ( or she) prefers.

Nobody asked, but I prefer for my trousers NOT to have a break at the hem. I regard "stepped on" jeans as a sign of poor tailoring, not high fashion.
Just sign me
NO Longer Contemporary,

MacLL