A US Tartan

[Good Egg]

I like it. I'd like it even better if the front apron were woven to be just blue with the white stars, and not include any red.

That would be a lot easier to do technically. 6 yards of red and white stripes and a blue star spangled apron on one end.

Perhaps not as interesting.

Perhaps a blue sporran with the stars on it?

[Brian K]

There's already the US Bicentenniel/ St. Andrew's Society Tartan, for those who are interested. IMHO it's pretty tasteful for a sett composed of bright red, bright blue, white, and black. Here's a photo of my 4-yd box-pleat kilt, created by Matt Newsome. I also have 4yds of this HW tartan available, if anyone else wants to have a kilt made.

David

As always, David, I think you look quite sharp here, but I have always thought the Bicentennial tartan a tad bright for me.

I was born on the 4th of July, so patriotic themes have always been sort of a natural for me, but as someone who enjoys designing tartans I think there is too much white in this sett, and most others with U.S. patriotic origins. I have tried my hand at a few myself and the less white I use the happier I am. My avatar is a red, white and blue tartan of my design. White is obvious, but it is used sparingly so it doesn't overwhelm or distort the other colors. There are also 4 shades of blue to add some subtleties of detail and the predominant color is a scarlet red which is bright enough on its own. Any more white and the effect would be garish, I think. I also know I am not the only one who has a problem with white in designing tartans - others have complained to me that they'd like to use it a bit more but it seems to take over if not used sparingly.

Before I knew Rocky had design his subdued and elegant American Heritage I also tried my hand at a tartan with a black ground with the national colors and, even if I do say so myself, I liked it better than many of the other offers we see for the American audience. I also like the American National sett from the House of Edgar someone mentioned earlier. Again, the designer did not try to use only red, white and blue and in equal amounts. I think the addition of green to that sett helps to even it out a bit, in addition to the fact that it is principally dark blue with red and white as accent colors.

Of course, we all have several choices and can pick whichever "American" tartan we wish as there is no officially recognized sett, just a plethora of fashion tartans to appeal to a wide variety of tastes.

Regards,

Brian

[KD Burke]

I wanted something unique, and I have a fondness for patriotic colors. I found this:



It's called "MacDonald Dress Irish."

It's odd how different folk pperceive things. To my eye, the Bicentennial tartan is "brighter" than this one, even though there is considerably more white in the MacDonald Dress Irish. Perhaps the darker blue and red tones mute it a bit.

KD
:ootd:

[chasem]

Also note that, if this project went to completion, the number of horizontal stripes would likely change w/ the height of the wearer...

I wear a kilt with a 26.5" length. If I had the full 13 stripes, someone who wears a 22.25" length kilt would likely be missing two stripes.

Unless you weave the fabric different for each kilt... but that's going to start taking the price up quick.

[AFS1970]

Errr...not sure what to make of this, but it certainly puts a new wrinkle in the phrase "wrapping yourself in the flag."

I like it. I'd like it even better if the front apron were woven to be just blue with the white stars, and not include any red.

...6 yards of red and white stripes and a blue star spangled apron on one end...

OK, I will be the stick in the mud here. So much of what gets discussed here is in the realm of "there are no rules", however this is one of the few times when there are more than rules, there are laws.

I found the sections that would appear to cover a flag Kilt. (d) is the most important. (g) would seem to cover Kilt pins or the patches and embroidery used by some manufacturers. (h) would additionally address sporrans and even if the above didn't cover it, (j) would seem to rule out highland games.

Oddly enough, if one were to be too short for all 13 stripes, that would negate the whole thing, as while likely tasteless, it would no longer be illegal as it would not really be the flag anymore.

UNITED STATES CODE
TITLE 36
CHAPTER 10

§176. Respect for flag

(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery.

(g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.

(h) The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.

(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform...

[O'Callaghan]

OK, I will be the stick in the mud here. So much of what gets discussed here is in the realm of "there are no rules", however this is one of the few times when there are more than rules, there are laws.

I found the sections that would appear to cover a flag Kilt. (d) is the most important. (g) would seem to cover Kilt pins or the patches and embroidery used by some manufacturers. (h) would additionally address sporrans and even if the above didn't cover it, (j) would seem to rule out highland games.

Oddly enough, if one were to be too short for all 13 stripes, that would negate the whole thing, as while likely tasteless, it would no longer be illegal as it would not really be the flag anymore.

UNITED STATES CODE
TITLE 36
CHAPTER 10

§176. Respect for flag

(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery.

(g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.

(h) The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.

(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform...

None of these tartams are the flag, or even part of the flag. Moreover, many national flags are red, white and blue, e.g. Britain, the Netherlands, Russia, etc. In fact, I understand that the first US flag was made from material originally intended for making British flags, and that is why you have the colours that you have.

[Brian K]

None of these tartams are the flag, or even part of the flag. Moreover, many national flags are red, white and blue, e.g. Britain, the Netherlands, Russia, etc. In fact, I understand that the first US flag was made from material originally intended for making British flags, and that is why you have the colours that you have.

I don't think AFS, a reasonable fellow in my experience, is referring to any and all red white and blue tartans, just the ideas that suggest that a kilt in said colors might be interesting if there were definite elements resembling the canton and stripes of the U.S. flag. That was the reason I was sceptical in my first post. The more it looks like an actual flag wrapped around a person the more it seems in bad taste to me.

Regards,

Brian

[EagleJCS]

None of these tartams are the flag, or even part of the flag. Moreover, many national flags are red, white and blue, e.g. Britain, the Netherlands, Russia, etc. In fact, I understand that the first US flag was made from material originally intended for making British flags, and that is why you have the colours that you have.

The OP's proposed tartan certainly resembles the US flag - or at least the stripes (part of the flag) - in the pleated section, and I believe that's why AFS quoted the pertinent US Code.

I agree with you that none of the existing tartans resemble the US flag, no matter how they're pleated.


I also agree with Brian K that the American Bicentennial tartan is a tad on the bright side. I think the blue should be closer to Navy blue than true blue, and the red should be closer to a ruby red (just one man's opinion).

There are 20 'American' tartans, per the Scottish Tartan Authority (just type 'American' into the Tartan Ferret name search). A couple look pretty good, but I'd want to see more than just the little swatch shown on the screen.

Getting Congress to agree that we even need a national tartan would be the really hard part of the whole exercise.

[piperdbh]

If the red and white stripes were vertical instead of horizontal, that might make it a bit less like wrapping a flag around one's middle.

[O'Callaghan]

I don't think AFS, a reasonable fellow in my experience, is referring to any and all red white and blue tartans, just the ideas that suggest that a kilt in said colors might be interesting if there were definite elements resembling the canton and stripes of the U.S. flag. That was the reason I was sceptical in my first post. The more it looks like an actual flag wrapped around a person the more it seems in bad taste to me.

Regards,

Brian

That's a good point. Reading it again I agree that would be what he meant.

There was a thread on the recently unveiled 'English kilt', which did resemble the English flag. There's no law against that in the UK, although I think it's an aesthetic disaster, LOL! I am forced to admit that the Scottish saltire kilt design is very much nicer.

The St. George tartan, AFAIK the only one representing England, is red, white and blue, like all the various USA tartans, although those are the colours of the British flag, not the English flag, which has only red and white in it.

OTOH, who would want to wear a gingham tablecloth around their waist, LOL! You'd have exactly the same problem trying to represent Poland, I suppose.

Fortunately for me, there are plenty of tartans designed to represent my Irish heritage.

Frankly, there are also quite a few different tartans designed to represent the USA. Enough of them that I have trouble understanding why someone wants to design another one?