What is Traditional Highland Dress?

[davidlpope]

I believe that is Rex's well made point, exactly. "Tradition" is the historical constant root that is not open to "Fashion's" influence, but rather, the unchanging point where we all begin, and return to, when designing fashion.

Being of the blood, but not of the culture, I truly appreciate my friends of the Highlands participating and guiding me in my education. Thank you!

Brooke

Perhaps the as-yet unasked question is this:

Is it even possible to truly wear Traditional Highland Attire without emulating the style that is worn by Scots in the Highlands?

That is, perhaps when folks throughout the world "modify" Traditional Highland Attire to fit their own fashion sensibilities it ceases to be Traditional Highland Attire and becomes something else.

Cordially,

David

David, my answer is "no", but I think we might be better to exit this thread on the Duke of Rothesay and go to "What is Traditional Highland Dress" for further discussion. What say you and Brooke?

Rex

Rex,

I tend to be of the same view. I guess the follow-up question is whether or not it is possible to wear Traditional Highland Attire outside Scotland at all...

I have a very neat book in my library titled "Highland Heritage". The author does a pretty thorough job examining the phenomena of "Scottish-Americanism" in the American South from a socialogist's point of view. I'd love to get a review of it from the Highlanders that are on XMarks. It might make all the fuss on this side of the pond a bit more understandable. Then again, it may confuse "y'all" even more. PM me if you'd be interested in reading it and I will drop a copy in the mail.

David

[ThistleDown]

Rex,

I tend to be of the same view. I guess the follow-up question is whether or not it is possible to wear Traditional Highland Attire outside Scotland at all...

I have a very neat book in my library titled "Highland Heritage". The author does a pretty thorough job examining the phenomena of "Scottish-Americanism" in the American South from a socialogist's point of view. I'd love to get a review of it from the Highlanders that are on XMarks. It might make all the fuss on this side of the pond a bit more understandable. Then again, it may confuse "y'all" even more. PM me if you'd be interested in reading it and I will drop a copy in the mail.

David

I don't know that one. I have "Highland Heritage" by Grace Campbell in my library, but I think that's not the one to which you are referring here. Let me know.

On the other subject (a change in the question along the way ?) Yes, of course. It is just not possible to alter traditional Highland dress by adopting a new fashion or a personal style outwith the Scottish Highlands.

Earlier in this thread my caution was that we keep constantly in mind the difference between "tradition", "fashion" and "personal style" when we speak of civilian Highland dress.

It is not possible for traditional Highland dress to undergo a change in any locale -- other than within its own culture -- and the new form still be referred to as traditional Highland dress.

An example. If, say, it became the fashion to wear a PC for afternoon weddings in California that would be the fashion in California until such time in the future when it became the way of wearing Highland dress -- in California.

That would not make it Traditional Highland Dress.

Perhaps another example. If, say, it became the fashion to wear full head-dresses of crow feathers for funerals in Bavaria that would be a fashion in Bavaria until such time as it became the way to wear Comanche head-gear -- in Bavaria. But not Traditional Comanche Dress.

This is a course of discussion with many pit-falls, but are we okay along the hill path so far?

Rex

[MacMillans son]

Thanks for the suggestion and the opportunity to continue the discussion gentleman. Yes I am with you Rex. I was thinking something very similar this afternoon. That is, the people of the culture are the ones who dictate what is traditional. It can not be dictated by those of us (like myself) who may have an attachment to the culture, but who are not of the culture. However an academic question did come up for me that you just touched on. How does a culture determine when something is traditional. It is not just a simple matter of "the original" or the "oldest example of". It seems that the definition does change over time to where current accepted convention becomes defined as traditional. A case in point, since we are talking about attire, the 4 yard box pleated kilt. At some point, and I am sure you probably know exactly at what point, that style of kilt was transitioned out in favor the 8 yard knife pleated kilt as the accepted example of a traditional kilt. And I bet the "traditionalist" old guard of the box pleated were having the same discussions with those that were trying to change convention in favor of the 8 yard knife pleated. "You can call it what you want, but its not traditional" kind of discussions. Of course, there are many things that influence how and why a current accepted practice changes over time. Do you think it's essentially when the majority of the people of the culture makes the change that it then goes on to become considered the new traditional ? I am visualizing 150 year cohorts moving through time, each considering their version as the definition of traditional. Your thoughts ?

Brooke

[MacMillans son]

Sorry for the pile of text. I'll insert some line spacing if I go on that long again.

[Jock Scot]

MacMillan's son.

I doubt that anyone even noticed the demise of the box pleated kilt as standard kilt wear. Most people were too busy getting on with living a fairly mundane life. Besides, in those days change to new things was in vogue. "Old" was dumped as a matter of course and often very swiftly in favour of the "New" latest super duper wizz bang gadget and I suspect that the Box pleated kilt went the way of many things at that time.It was a time when "Old" was out and "New" was in, much like the 1960's that some of us can remember!

Now, I hesitate to mention flat caps here( just so you know,this is a touchy subject), but we have hundreds of photographs of pre WW1 kilted gentlemen, shooting, fishing, walking, bicycling, climbing, posing and whatever, wearing the flat tweed cap, all pretty traditional you would have thought. For some reason, at about that time, that I have never really been able to fathom, until now, the flat cap went out of use as kilt attire. Not only did they go out of favour, they are regarded as a no-no these days(well, to my certain knowledge since 1940) by the kilt traditionalists.

So, by Rex's excellent definition the flat cap was a "fashion" item and as we all know fashions come and fashions go.

[fluter]

I don't know that one. I have "Highland Heritage" by Grace Campbell in my library, but I think that's not the one to which you are referring here. Let me know.

Highland Heritage: Scottish Americans in the American South
by Celeste Ray. Amazon (US) link

[davidlpope]

Highland Heritage: Scottish Americans in the American South
by Celeste Ray. Amazon (US) link

That's the one! Thanks.

[ThistleDown]

That's the one! Thanks.

Yes, of course. I know of Professor Ray but have not read his work. I suspect this would be fascinating but a topic of great controversy here on this forum

Rex

[ThistleDown]

Thanks for the suggestion and the opportunity to continue the discussion gentleman. Yes I am with you Rex. I was thinking something very similar this afternoon. That is, the people of the culture are the ones who dictate what is traditional. It can not be dictated by those of us (like myself) who may have an attachment to the culture, but who are not of the culture. However an academic question did come up for me that you just touched on. How does a culture determine when something is traditional. It is not just a simple matter of "the original" or the "oldest example of". It seems that the definition does change over time to where current accepted convention becomes defined as traditional. A case in point, since we are talking about attire, the 4 yard box pleated kilt. At some point, and I am sure you probably know exactly at what point, that style of kilt was transitioned out in favor the 8 yard knife pleated kilt as the accepted example of a traditional kilt. And I bet the "traditionalist" old guard of the box pleated were having the same discussions with those that were trying to change convention in favor of the 8 yard knife pleated. "You can call it what you want, but its not traditional" kind of discussions. Of course, there are many things that influence how and why a current accepted practice changes over time. Do you think it's essentially when the majority of the people of the culture makes the change that it then goes on to become considered the new traditional ? I am visualizing 150 year cohorts moving through time, each considering their version as the definition of traditional. Your thoughts ?

Brooke

I am afraid, Brooke, that I can't provide you with box-to-knife pleat transition dates and refer you to our own Matt Newsome's writings on the subject. In looking backwards, however, we should all be careful that we don't give too much credance to a perception of clothing pride that most likely was not there in the eras before our own.

Certainly there were "dandies" in urban society and a few among the leisure class, but Highland dress is a rural form of attire and the vast majority of country folk in Scotland did not have the gilt to even think about what they wore, except that it protect them from the cold and the wet. The paintings we have of individuals dressed to the teeth in tartan finery may well represent the posers of the day for all we know.

I doubt there is a pure answer to your question on evolution. As Jock has so well described, the existence of the flat cap as an item worn with Highland dress faded into and faded out of use and is now seen to be what it perhaps was -- a fashion or fad. The cap is still around, of course, but is perhaps similar to the American baseball cap and that's certainly not worn with Highland dress, either.

I wonder if we may actually draw a parallel with the ubiquitous baseball cap? As an item of head gear to keep the harsh sun from one's eyes it is good although to keep the rain off it is not so good. That's the utility of the thing. Has it now become a traditional item of clothing in America? Is wearing it backwards just a fashion within that tradition? And is wearing it indoors some sort of personal statement? If it continues to be worn backwards and indoors does that become the evolved tradition?
Oh dear, and how long do we have to put up with the fashion and style before we know for sure?

Rex

[macwilkin]

Yes, of course. I know of Professor Ray but have not read his work. I suspect this would be fascinating but a topic of great controversy here on this forum

Rex

Professor Ray is actually a "her". Her work has been discussed here before, by yours truly and others. Overall she presents a very interesting look at the Scottish-American community. While some might find her analysis disconserting, I think she raises some very good points about the mythology of history and how diaspora people re-create their home cultures abroad. Her analysis of World War II German reenactors has been far more contraversial than Highland Heritage though.

T.