What is Traditional Highland Dress?

[Micric]

Quote, OC Richard;

"About caps: It's interesting that the founder of The Scottish Fiddlers Of Los Angeles, Colin Gordon, the only actual Scot in the group, invariably wore a deerstalker with kilts. Makes sense: we have a lot of sun, and the deerstalker keeps the sun both off the face and off the back of the neck, the places you really can get sunburned here. (By the way, it's strange perhaps that Los Angeles was home both to the first Strathspey & Reel Society outside of Scotland itself, and also home to the largest branch of the Royal Scottish Country Dance Society on earth. The huge LA branch has since split up into two or three smaller branches.) "
End quote.

O C,
I do agree that the deerstalker works well, but because a Scot wears one commonly with his kilt in LA, doesn't make it traditional highland attire. Earlier in this thread, I asked about this head-gear, and Jock kindly replied that If he wore his kilt whilst shooting or fishing, he would wear a for -and -aft or deerstalker. He went on to say that he would do so 0nly whilst participating in such activities.

Re. LA being the home of the largest Reel society outside Scotland, and the largest Scottish C. Dance society in the world, These facts are academic, What you see in LA has nothing at all to do with what is correct Highland attire, as worn In the Scottish Highlands.

Best,
Richard.

[artificer]

I personally feel that knowledge of social customs is less an indicator of a person's status as a gentleman than the way he acts!

I do believe, however, that you need a knowledge of social customs to 'guide' you in proper behavior. What is appropriate behavior at the ball park, in most cases, isn't in a formal setting. The same works in reverse. You'd never wear formal attire to a BBQ (unless it was part of a charity fundraiser or other exceptional circumstance). Good manners and proper etiquette are appropriate everywhere.



I think I've done my part to thoroughly derail this thread

[MacMillans son]

I think what is difficult for some on this continent to come to grips with is the level of Scottish pride that comes with the kilt. We outwith of Scotland, at least here in the U.S., don't have a "national attire" which generates as much emotion as the Kilt does for Scots. We compare it, emotionally, with Levis and can't understand what all of the fuss is about. We equate their emotional stance about how it should be worn to us telling them how they should wear their jeans.

Instead, as I am gleaning from the emotional replies from my new friends in Scotland, perhaps we here should equate it with how another country treats our flag. For many Scots, the kilt is not just a garment, it's a national symbol and treating it with anything but the utmost respect is experienced as a slight against their national pride, not just a fashion failure.

When I visualize the American flag being chopped up, turned into nic nacs, worn as casual clothing, especially in countries other than my own, I have a much different response than when I see someone wearing Levis in a way I would not choose to wear them (bleached, purposely torn or stained etc)

Through that lens I see a much different picture.

Am I gaining on it?

Brooke

[Jock Scot]

Micric.

I am not at all sure that I did say that I would wear a deerstalker/F&A if I was kilted shooting and fishing and "ONLY" for those pastimes, although they would most certainly be my choice for those particular pastimes and I am sorry if I did not make that clear.

I would happily wear the Deerstalker/F&A to any informal kilted event up to say Highland Games, Game fair type events. Although I do, in fact, choose to wear a balmoral most of the time.

[Jock Scot]

I think what is difficult for some on this continent to come to grips with is the level of Scottish pride that comes with the kilt. We outwith of Scotland, at least here in the U.S., don't have a "national attire" which generates as much emotion as the Kilt does for Scots. We compare it, emotionally, with Levis and can't understand what all of the fuss is about. We equate their emotional stance about how it should be worn to us telling them how they should wear their jeans.

Instead, as I am gleaning from the emotional replies from my new friends in Scotland, perhaps we here should equate it with how another country treats our flag. For many Scots, the kilt is not just a garment, it's a national symbol and treating it with anything but the utmost respect is experienced as a slight against their national pride, not just a fashion failure.

When I visualize the American flag being chopped up, turned into nic nacs, worn as casual clothing, especially in countries other than my own, I have a much different response than when I see someone wearing Levis in a way I would not choose to wear them (bleached, purposely torn or stained etc)

Through that lens I see a much different picture.

Am I gaining on it?

Brooke

Yes Brooke I think you are getting nearer to "our" way of thinking and I for one, really appreciate you taking the trouble to try and understand where the Scots are coming from over this.Thank you.

Without, I hope, sounding patronising, the bit that you and your countrymen tend to forget is that the New World is a very young place compared with Scotland's place in the Old World. We have, say, at least another 600 to 1000 years of culture, history and traditions to carry on our backs compared to you chaps in the New World.Now in all fairness, that must take a fair bit of understanding for all concerned. In many ways you chaps have a clean slate, relatively speaking, and it is part of your young culture to question, reject if necessary, and adapt just about everything the Old World stands for and therein lies the crux of your understandable confusion.

[MacBean]

I find the hat discussion most interesting, but let me digress.

If in an imaginary world, the kilt existed when most Scots came to the New Worlds, and if Highland culture had survived the struggles of frontier life in a recognizable fashion, and if adaptations to Traditional Highland Dress were made to suit the New World climate, would they then be considered variant adaptations ofTraditional Highland Dress? I rather think they might, as long as we rule out the wild costuming. Am I off topic?

Perhaps we would not wear jackets in hot weather. Perhaps we would have retained and adapted the mocasin-like footwear of the Highlands of yore. But what about hats (and dark glasses), both of which are useful adaptations to the much increased sunlight in the New World? Don't we need a new Highland wear hat for the weather in the Americas?

Let's start with the deerstalker; others have said it would serve. Can someone post pictures of Highland Dress with a "fore and aft" or deerstalker? I can't find any.

Failing that, I haven't been convinced that the Balmoral or Glengarry serve well, though the New Worlds have tried to make them work. One, it seems that they are either out-of-place or over-used as "Traditional Highland Dress". Two, they don't really serve as weather protection. I realize the following cap is considered paramillitary, but wonder if it isn't one of the more practical adapations while in the field? If not this, then what? Are we not to make adaptations for time and place appropriate for the New Worlds?

[MacBean]

... I for one, really appreciate you taking the trouble to try and understand where the Scots are coming from over this.Thank you.
...
In many ways you chaps have a clean slate, relatively speaking, and it is part of your young culture to question, reject if necessary, and adapt just about everything the Old World stands for and therein lies the crux of your understandable confusion.

I suspect it is more complex than that as we do have history, and many here of Scots descent consider Scottish history as their own history. And why not? Some in the South may see the Jacobite Rebellions, the American Revolution, the Confederate secession (and perhaps the wild dress in Highland Games) as a continuum. Don't ask me how, I only barely understand it myself. That we have a great number of folk who have always questioned and distrusted tradition is probably true. Those who came here wer seeking opportunity for sure, but may also have been running away from their past constraints.

[macwilkin]

I suspect it is more complex than that as we do have history, and many here of Scots descent consider Scottish history as their own history. And why not? Some in the South may see the Jacobite Rebellions, the American Revolution, the Confederate secession (and perhaps the wild dress in Highland Games) as a continuum. Don't ask me how, I only barely understand it myself. That we have a great number of folk who have always questioned and distrusted tradition is probably true. Those who came here wer seeking opportunity for sure, but may also have been running away from their past constraints.

That is precisely why David recommended the excellent book Highland Heritage by Celeste Ray several pages back.

T.

[Lyle1]

Of course, the very same statement could also be applied to those who frequently brand all traditionalist kilt-wearers as "kilt police", "kilt nazis", and so forth. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

T.

That is very true. We should all be considerate of one another. When we respond inappropriately to inappropriate comments, we only lend credence to the supposition that rudeness is acceptable.

[Lyle1]

I do believe, however, that you need a knowledge of social customs to 'guide' you in proper behavior. What is appropriate behavior at the ball park, in most cases, isn't in a formal setting. The same works in reverse. You'd never wear formal attire to a BBQ (unless it was part of a charity fundraiser or other exceptional circumstance). Good manners and proper etiquette are appropriate everywhere.



I think I've done my part to thoroughly derail this thread

Yes custom, and in particular, that which is accepted as manners, make navigating social situations much easier, but lacking knowledge of specific customs or manners, one can usually use common sense as a guide to proper behavior. I firmly believe that the essence of what constitutes a gentleman resides in that part of the brain that influences standards of conduct or behavior, rather than in the part of the brain that helps one remember what shoe to wear.