What is Traditional Highland Dress?

[davidlpope]

Sorry, but we own the tradition. We love that you want to borrow it and even adopt it as your own, but the tradition is that of the Highlands of Scotland and not subject to the whims of somebody from somewhere else. It has evolved over time and it will continue to do so. It may even adopt some fashions or features developed elsewhere in the world as it evolves (rubber soles for our brogues comes to mind .

Rex,

Despite being an outlander, I agree with your statement. The necessary corollary, though, is that Americans are dependent on Highlanders for "informing our sensibilities" concerning Traditional Highland Civilian Dress (THCD). I'm appreciative of the guidance provided here on XMarks, and covet those rare trips to Scotland, but perhaps some brainstorming for additional ways that the word can be got out is in order...

I did have a question raised when I read this section:

Traditional Civilian Highland Dress does not include flat caps or pith helmets (sorry, Jamie) or claymores or targes or deer-hide shoes or so-called Jacobite shirts or regimental ties or tiers of badges and medals.

I recall many photos of individuals wearing THCD, in the Highlands, which featured regimental neckties. I understand that one should only wear neckties one "rates"(regiments/ branches of service one has served in), but shouldn't they be considered an acceptable aspect of THCD even if they are not a required aspect of THCD? Please help me to understand the distinction here.

Cordially,

David

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Rex,

Despite being an outlander, I agree with your statement. The necessary corollary, though, is that Americans are dependent on Highlanders for "informing our sensibilities" concerning Traditional Highland Civilian Dress (THCD). I'm appreciative of the guidance provided here on XMarks, and covet those rare trips to Scotland, but perhaps some brainstorming for additional ways that the word can be got out is in order...

I did have a question raised when I read this section:



I recall many photos of individuals wearing THCD, in the Highlands, which featured regimental neckties. I understand that one should only wear neckties one "rates"(regiments/ branches of service one has served in), but shouldn't they be considered an acceptable aspect of THCD even if they are not a required aspect of THCD? Please help me to understand the distinction here.

Cordially,

David

I think what Rex was referring to was the (mostly US) custom of wearing regimental ties by those individuals who have no entitlement to the tie; ie: they never served in the regiment.

In the photos you've posted all of the gentlemen have an indisputable entitlement to wear their regimental tie. I doubt that Rex, Jock, or any of the rest of us would have a problem with anyone wearing a striped tie with their kilt-- but wearing a regimental tie... well, that's a stripe of another colour.

[ThistleDown]

Rex,

Despite being an outlander, I agree with your statement. The necessary corollary, though, is that Americans are dependent on Highlanders for "informing our sensibilities" concerning Traditional Highland Civilian Dress (THCD). I'm appreciative of the guidance provided here on XMarks, and covet those rare trips to Scotland, but perhaps some brainstorming for additional ways that the word can be got out is in order...

I did have a question raised when I read this section:



I recall many photos of individuals wearing THCD, in the Highlands, which featured regimental neckties. I understand that one should only wear neckties one "rates"(regiments/ branches of service one has served in), but shouldn't they be considered an acceptable aspect of THCD even if they are not a required aspect of THCD? Please help me to understand the distinction here.

Cordially,

David

Thank you, David. You will have experienced this "rising up" on the forum before now. Those of us who do the rising thing are always just a tad embarassed after the fact, even though we know that many of you understand our frustration and the need to vent. Brainstorming will help all of us, I am sure.

You asked me to explain my comment on regimental ties. I did try to include other things like badges and medals and the like in my little list but I suppose I was not very clear, was I? You struck the nail quite squarely, however. There are some exquisitely beautiful regimental and school ties out there and some of us are even entitled to wear one or two of them (our own Jock you have shown, Duart and, of course, HRH). They are just ties, after all. On board here, however, there are many who think that it is an honour to the regiment (or school) if they wear that regiment's or school's tie. In Highland tradition that is presumtuous and even insulting. It is not far distant from wearing medals to which you are not entitled.

[OC Richard]

Wowza.

Two things really strike my eye about these photos:

1) PC has some very nice Highland Dress. Excellent taste is being shown. Is it all his own, or does he have a Gentleman's Gentleman or other person who chooses or helps choose his dress?

2) CPB is obviously striving to match in with PC's dress, with varying degrees of success.

Her Lovat Green dress works OK. Appears to be made from the same cloth as PC's jacket. In my opinion it would be better to wear a colour that harmonises with PC's overall look than to match one specific colour. Perhaps a muted green somewhere between the colour of PC's jacket and PC's kilt would have been best.

Her ensemble with the tartan jacket looks awful juxtaposed onto what PC is wearing. (In other words it might look OK if he weren't standing beside her.)

Likewise the ensemble with the skirt and jacket which matches what PC is wearing is just too much, coming off almost as a parody. Much better I think to wear a skirt of the same tartan but wear a jacket which contrasts with PC's jacket.

Only the reddish dress which picks up on the stripes in PC's kilt works well to me. Though it also displays her unfortunate penchant for tartan lapels.

Co-ordinate rather than match should be the keyword.

[JSFMACLJR]

Wowza.

Two things really strike my eye about these photos:

1) PC has some very nice Highland Dress. Excellent taste is being shown. Is it all his own, or does he have a Gentleman's Gentleman or other person who chooses or helps choose his dress?

2) CPB is obviously striving to match in with PC's dress, with varying degrees of success.

Her Lovat Green dress works OK. Appears to be made from the same cloth as PC's jacket. In my opinion it would be better to wear a colour that harmonises with PC's overall look than to match one specific colour. Perhaps a muted green somewhere between the colour of PC's jacket and PC's kilt would have been best.

Her ensemble with the tartan jacket looks awful juxtaposed onto what PC is wearing. (In other words it might look OK if he weren't standing beside her.)

Likewise the ensemble with the skirt and jacket which matches what PC is wearing is just too much, coming off almost as a parody. Much better I think to wear a skirt of the same tartan but wear a jacket which contrasts with PC's jacket.

Only the reddish dress which picks up on the stripes in PC's kilt works well to me. Though it also displays her unfortunate penchant for tartan lapels.

Co-ordinate rather than match should be the keyword.

You know, this has got to be one of the silliest posts ever! Since when must a wife "harmonise" her dress with that of her husband? My friend, women can wear WHATEVER THEY WANT TO WEAR!. I think the Duchess of Rothesay looks very well dressed in these photographs. If she doesn't live up to your high standards, write her and let her know.

Perhaps, though, you should be critisizing the Duke instead. Maybe HE should have checked with his wife before he dressed to make sure he was wearing something that "coordinated" with her clothes.

PS. My wife thinks you are a pompous chauvanist, by the way!

[artificer]

To my eye, untrained as it is, HRH looks perfectly turned out. I wish I had his tailors.

Since when must a wife "harmonise" her dress with that of her husband? My friend, women can wear WHATEVER THEY WANT TO WEAR!.

I would argue that when the wife is married to part of a royal family, and where ever they go there WILL be pictures taken, there should be a certain balance between her dress and her husbands (the same would work in reverse, and usually does with every NON-royal couple). It makes photos much more pleasant to look at, and enhances everyone in the shot.

You wouldn't want to see the Duchess in pink chiffon when PC is wearing ANY of these outfits. I think the original commentator is bringing it up because she appears to be attempting to 'mirror' PC's outfits rather than find something suitable that isn't visually jarring (or 'in-harmony').

As for women being able to wear whatever they want, that's mostly true... but have you read British press commentary on clothing before?? They're not always the kindest.

[OC Richard]

You know, this has got to be one of the silliest posts ever! Since when must a wife "harmonise" her dress with that of her husband?

I never said, or implied, that she MUST harmonise. But obviously she is striving to match. Or at least it's obvious to me that she's striving to match. It is she, not me, that is putting a priority on attempting to match the Prince's dress.

My point was simply that she would be better off harmonising/co-ordinating rather than matching.

The Prince himself is admiriably demonstrating this principle in his own attire.

The Kilt Hire photo of matching white Prince Charlie, plain white kilt, white hose, white shirt, white bowtie, white sporran, and white flashes looks silly to us for that very reason.

[artificer]

It is not unusual, even traditional in fact, that Scottish ladies as in this case the Duchess of Rothsay, to wear a modicum of their husbands tartan whilst out and about. My wife does, on occasion, and I like that she wants to very much. and I do not consider that itis "mirroring" in any way.

Jock,
my apologies, I personally think the Duchess looks quite fine. I was responding to the post by JSFMACLJR regarding 'women can wear anything they want', as it pertains to persons of a certain status, and the inevitable photo-taking.

I also wasn't specific enough in my statement. When I spoke of mirroring PC's outfit I was referring to the below image, where the Duchess and PC appear to be wearing the same outfit, with gender appropriate modifications.

The outfit, were she not standing next to PC, would be delightful, but when the two stand together it appears that they could be wearing a uniform.
Other than that, her tailoring looks impeccable, and in the balance of the photos, I think she pairs up quite nicely with HRH.

My apologies for any confusion or unintended slight.

[JSFMACLJR]

Jock,
my apologies, I personally think the Duchess looks quite fine. I was responding to the post by JSFMACLJR regarding 'women can wear anything they want', as it pertains to persons of a certain status, and the inevitable photo-taking.

I also wasn't specific enough in my statement. When I spoke of mirroring PC's outfit I was referring to the below image, where the Duchess and PC appear to be wearing the same outfit, with gender appropriate modifications.


The outfit, where she not standing next to PC, would be delightful, but when the two stand together it appears that they could be wearing a uniform.
Other than that, her tailoring looks impeccable, and in the balance of the photos, I think she pairs up quite nicely with HRH.

My apologies for any confusion or unintended slight.

This photo does appear to be a lttle too cute, I will admit. I think the Duchess's jacket should have been made up in Balmoral tartan to make a suit...but I'm no fashion designer!