Raiding the Regiment

[OC Richard]

Now there's an interesting thread in the "kilt advice" section where there is posted a photo of the rear of an MOD MacDonald kilt. This kilt has very interesting pleating, the pleats alternating between two different locations along the sett.

I would assume that this kilt is a Nova Scotia Highlanders kilt, because I've not been able to find any reference to any other military unit wearing MacDonald tartan.

Which brought up a couple interesing points. When and why did the Nova Scotia Highlanders adopt MacDonald? Because according to Barnes none of the parent regiments wore that tartan:

Pictou Highlanders: MacKenzie
North Nova Scotia Highlanders: Murray of Atholl
Cape Breton Highlanders: Sutherland

These three regiments became the Nova Scotia Highlanders in 1954.

The other interesting thing is how common it was for Canadian military units to adopt civilian clan tartans.

The original Scottish Highland regiments all wore "Government tartan" at first (42nd Highlanders, 93rd Highlanders) or added overstripes to the Government sett (92nd Highlanders, 78th Highlanders) or invented a new tartan (79th Highlanders).

Australian and New Zealand regiments adopted preexisting Scottish military tartans (Black Watch, MacKenzie, Gordon).

But many Canadian regiments adopted clan tartans: Murray of Atholl, Davidson, MacGregor, Douglas, Campbell of Argyll, MacDonnell of Glengarry, Leslie, and MacGillivray.

So there must be loads of old MOD kilts floating around in Canada made from these clan tartans. I wonder what pleating style was used in each case.

[xman]

... according to Barnes none of the parent regiments wore that tartan:

Pictou Highlanders: MacKenzie
North Nova Scotia Highlanders: Murray of Atholl
Cape Breton Highlanders: Sutherland

This would contradict my (increasingly faulty) memory. Thanks for the correction.

[CMcG]

I was in Toronto's AAA Army Surplus on Saturday and saw three kilts hanging on the rack. The proprietor said they are difficult to get hold of from the regiments but that it does happen every so often. This store also has branches in N.Y., though I'm not sure if they get kilts south of the border...

Canada:
http://www.armynavydeals.ca

U.S.:
http://www.armynavydeals.com/asp/

[JSFMACLJR]

But many Canadian regiments adopted clan tartans: Murray of Atholl, Davidson, MacGregor, Douglas, Campbell of Argyll, MacDonnell of Glengarry, Leslie, and MacGillivray.

So there must be loads of old MOD kilts floating around in Canada made from these clan tartans. I wonder what pleating style was used in each case.

MacLean of Duart tartan too.

[macwilkin]

Now there's an interesting thread in the "kilt advice" section where there is posted a photo of the rear of an MOD MacDonald kilt. This kilt has very interesting pleating, the pleats alternating between two different locations along the sett.

I would assume that this kilt is a Nova Scotia Highlanders kilt, because I've not been able to find any reference to any other military unit wearing MacDonald tartan.

Which brought up a couple interesing points. When and why did the Nova Scotia Highlanders adopt MacDonald? Because according to Barnes none of the parent regiments wore that tartan:

Pictou Highlanders: MacKenzie
North Nova Scotia Highlanders: Murray of Atholl
Cape Breton Highlanders: Sutherland

These three regiments became the Nova Scotia Highlanders in 1954.

The other interesting thing is how common it was for Canadian military units to adopt civilian clan tartans.

The original Scottish Highland regiments all wore "Government tartan" at first (42nd Highlanders, 93rd Highlanders) or added overstripes to the Government sett (92nd Highlanders, 78th Highlanders) or invented a new tartan (79th Highlanders).

Australian and New Zealand regiments adopted preexisting Scottish military tartans (Black Watch, MacKenzie, Gordon).

But many Canadian regiments adopted clan tartans: Murray of Atholl, Davidson, MacGregor, Douglas, Campbell of Argyll, MacDonnell of Glengarry, Leslie, and MacGillivray.

So there must be loads of old MOD kilts floating around in Canada made from these clan tartans. I wonder what pleating style was used in each case.

Part of this may be due to the fact that some Canadian Scottish regiments were raised with no real tie to affiliated parent regiments in Scotland, or were converted into Scottish regiments from non-Scottish ones. The most prominent example of the latter is the Lake Superior Scottish, which did not become a "Highland" regiment until the 1950s, when it adopted the MacGillivray tartan in 1949 for William MacGillivray, a Scottish fur trader with the Northwest Fur Company at nearby Ft. William on Thunder Bay. Before that it was simply the Lake Superior Regiment (Motor), known as the "Lake Sups".

T.

[macwilkin]

MacLean of Duart tartan too.

Information regarding Sandy's post:

http://www.clanmacleanatlantic.org/his-kilties.html

Note that the 236th was a "privately raised" battalion, and as mentioned before, was not bound by regimental tradition with an affiliated parent regiment such as the RHR of Canada.

Frequently when a clan tartan was chosen by a regiment, it was to honour a past commander with ties to that clan, such as the Lowland K.O.S.B. choosing the Leslie Hunting tartan in honour of David Leslie, 3rd Earl of Leven, who raised the regiment in 1689.

The choice of a previously non-associated tartan, such as the MacDonald tartan and the new Nova Scotia Highlanders, may have been done to avoid trouble within the ranks of a newly amalgamated regiment, similar to Lord Elcho's decision for the London Scottish to wear Hodden Grey, rather than a particular tartan.

T.

[xman]

I finally heard back from the DND. Rather than "Pess Oaff"! they say;

"Good day,

Thank you for your request that has been forwarded to our office today. Please contact directly the Nova Scotia Highlanders as per below:

1 NSH (N) Armouries

Addresses & Phone Numbers

Unit Toll Free: 1-888-229-0221"

Guess I'll screw my courage up for a phone call and see what can had.

[xena]

It sounds like you didn't contact the intended Regiment in the first place. That could make sense. The "contact us" option on the DND pages would probably be for someone in NDHQ in Ottawa.

Articles of Highland Clothing would be controlled by Regimental Stores, and bought and paid for by Non-Public Funds (ie. NOT the taxpayer) and belong to the Regiment itself, and not DND.

It's true, they don't part with them easily (as the high quality stuff they use is rather expensive) but, it does happen.

Good luck.

[Jack Daw]

When I was in Scotland in 2003 and toured all the regimental posts, I asked about spare kit to buy. All regiments were more than willing to part with whatever I could find in their back store rooms, but it was all WAY too small for me. I seem to recall a military surplus store in Edinburgh that was closed because I was there on a Sunday. A fellow piper buddy had bought a box-pleat Cameron of Erracht at such a place when he was in Scotland on a prior visit, but I was not so lucky.

[xman]

I emailed Cpt. Elliott MacDonald GGFG (my brother) and he replies;

"The NS Highlanders is a waste of your time. They can't sell crown assets
and because kilts in the military are in serious short supply, they're
likely to hang up on you. When you're hiking, I'd suggest wearing pants or
shorts like a normal guy. Kilt is trying way too hard."

heh, I responded;

"In case you were unaware, I don't quite fit into the category of 'normal guy', but thank-you for the concern. :-D"

I'm still trying to psych myself up for that call though, just in case.